Romans 12:2 (AMP) And do not be conformed to this world [any longer with its superficial values and customs], but be transformed and progressively changed [as you mature spiritually] by the renewing of your mind [focusing on godly values and ethical attitudes], so that you may prove [for yourselves] what the will of God is, that which is good and acceptable and perfect [in His plan and purpose for you].

**Transcription Below**

Questions and Topics We Discuss:

How can we experience the abundant life here and now?
How does meditating on Scripture help rewire our brains?
What are the 4 forces that most heavily influence the way we think about things?

Ken Baugh was a successful pastor before a crippling experience of burnout disrupted his career and set him on a journey to better understand the dynamics of spiritual health. With a DM in from Talbot Theological Seminary, Ken is the founder and CEO of IDT Ministries.

IDT Ministries Discipleship Website

Pastor Ken Baugh's YouTube Channel

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Unhindered Abundance by Ken Baugh

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Gospel Scripture: (all NIV)

Romans 3:23 “for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,”

Romans 3:24 “and are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus.”

Romans 3:25 (a) “God presented him as a sacrifice of atonement, through faith in his blood.”

Hebrews 9:22 (b) “without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness.”

Romans 5:8 “But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us.”

Romans 5:11 “Not only is this so, but we also rejoice in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have now received reconciliation.”

John 3:16 “For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.”

Romans 10:9 “That if you confess with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.”

Luke 15:10 says “In the same way, I tell you, there is rejoicing in the presence of the angels of God over one sinner who repents.”

Romans 8:1 “Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus”

Ephesians 1:13–14 “And you also were included in Christ when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation. Having believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit, who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God’s possession- to the praise of his glory.”

Ephesians 1:15–23 “For this reason, ever since I heard about your faith in the Lord Jesus and your love for all the saints, I have not stopped giving thanks for you, remembering you in my prayers. I keep asking that the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the glorious Father, may give you the spirit of wisdom and revelation, so that you may know him better. I pray also that the eyes of your heart may be enlightened in order that you may know the hope to which he has called you, the riches of his glorious inheritance in the saints, and his incomparably great power for us who believe. That power is like the working of his mighty strength, which he exerted in Christ when he raised him from the dead and seated him at his right hand in the heavenly realms, far above all rule and authority, power and dominion, and every title that can be given, not only in the present age but also in the one to come. And God placed all things under his feet and appointed him to be head over everything for the church, which is his body, the fullness of him who fills everything in every way.”

Ephesians 2:8–10 “For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith – and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God – not by works, so that no one can boast. For we are God‘s workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do.“

Ephesians 2:13 “But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far away have been brought near through the blood of Christ.“

Philippians 1:6 “being confident of this, that he who began a good work in you will carry it on to completion until the day of Christ Jesus.”

**Transcription**

[00:00:00] <music>

Laura Dugger: Welcome to The Savvy Sauce, where we have practical chats for intentional living. I'm your host Laura Dugger, and I'm so glad you're here.

[00:00:19] <music>

Laura Dugger: I am thrilled to introduce you to our sponsor, Winshape Marriage. Their weekend retreats will strengthen your marriage, and you will enjoy this gorgeous setting, delicious food, and quality time with your spouse. To find out more, visit them online at Winshapemarriage.org. That's Winshapemarriage.org. Thanks for your sponsorship.

Ken Baugh is my guest today. He is humble, knowledgeable, and gentle in his delivery. We're going to cover topics such as the abundant life in Christ, relationship with the Holy Spirit, and even practical ways to rewire our brains. He's also going to share what the one thing is that we have control over that can impact our entire spiritual life.

Here's our chat.

Welcome to The Savvy Sauce, Ken. [00:01:19]

Ken Baugh: Thank you, Laura. It's so great to be with you today.

Laura Dugger: Will you just start by sharing a bit about who you are and what you do?

Ken Baugh: Well, I've been a follower of Christ for 46 years, married to Susan, the love of my life, for 35 years. We have two adult daughters, three grandchildren, and a dog named Ro.

I was a local church pastor for 25 years. Ten and a half of those years, I was a senior pastor of a large church in Southern California. In 2014, I launched IDT Ministries, where we offer coaching and resources to help people become more spiritually and emotionally healthy. I'm also a visiting professor at Tabor College, teaching in the Master of Education program in neuroscience and trauma.

Laura Dugger: Wow, that's quite the resume. With your rich background in theology, I'm just excited to hear a lot of different theological concepts from you today. [00:02:20] So could you just begin by defining the abundant life and share how we can actually experience that here and now?

Ken Baugh: That word "abundance" that Jesus uses in John 10:10, I think it's more about quality than quantity. So the more we take on the character of Christ, which is what it means to be conformed to his image, Paul talks about that in 2 Corinthians 3:18 and Romans 8:29 as a couple of places. But the more we conform to that image of Christ, we will experience the quality of life that Jesus Himself experienced while on earth.

Maybe the word "Shalom" would be helpful in understanding what Jesus was getting at when he referred to the abundant life. Shalom is a Hebrew word that refers to an inner state of completeness or wholeness and tranquility. If you've ever been to Israel and someone says Shalom, they would be saying something like, may your life be full of well-being. [00:03:21]

I think Shalom captures the concept of the abundant life. And all of this is only accessible through our relationship with Christ. And I don't think that any of us are going to experience the full extent of the abundant life that is available to us in this life but I think we can maybe experience a lot more of it than we ever thought possible.

Laura Dugger: And for some people, I've heard this term "worm theology" thrown around before. So could you maybe elaborate on what that would be and why that misses the heart of this scripture?

Ken Baugh: Worm theology is the idea that "I'm nobody. I'm just scum. I'm a dirty, rotten sinner." It really is mired in guilt, shame, and condemnation of which in Christ there is none of that. So we are a new creation in Christ. We are beloved children of our heavenly Father. [00:04:23] We are those in whom He both delights and in whom He dwells. So the idea that I'm some dirty, rotten, scummy person just doesn't stand up biblically as a new creation in Christ.

Laura Dugger: I appreciate so many things about your recent book, Unhindered Abundance. But even on this topic, you were explaining how God uses the Bible and He identifies us as saints. That's what He calls us. That's what He refers to us as after we've had that moment of transformation, justification, when we surrender our life to Him.

You just succinctly articulated something so well that I just want to repeat. I'm not going to quote it verbatim. But you talk about before that decision, we may sin and after that decision, we may still sin, we will still sin. [00:05:25] But the difference is before that choice we're enslaved to sin, and now we have the power to choose not to sin. We can overcome that because of Jesus. Would you add anything to that?

Ken Baugh: Yeah, I think that's really an important topic to understand, Laura. Because a lot of Christians, I think, do struggle with the fact that, well, gosh, if I am a new creation in Christ, why do I still struggle with anger or why am I still stuck in addiction or what is going on? The idea that is if these things are still true in my life, then this must not be true, that I am a child of God, that I am a new creation in Christ.

I think what we need to all remember and maybe remind each other of is that God doesn't hit the "clear" button on our life when we get saved. All of the past narrative that is part of our story, all of those memories, all of the pain and trauma, it's all still there. [00:06:23]

The brain has the capacity to store every experience, everything that's ever happened to you and to me all in one place. So it's easy to stay stuck in former both habits and thinking patterns that are destructive and playing out in our current day.

Laura Dugger: On the contrary of this abundant life that you had been explaining, how do you also see the enemy of our souls scheming to keep us stuck in living a mediocre life?

Ken Baugh: Well, it's interesting. I mean, that's a great question. It's interesting when you go back to John 10:10, that in the context of Jesus saying that He came to give life abundantly, right before that He said the thief comes only to kill, steal and destroy, but I have come that they may have life and have it abundantly. So right there embedded in our understanding of the abundant life is there is a thief that is trying to take that away. [00:07:22]

Now, Satan has no power over us in Christ, but he can tempt us to believe lies and distortions of the truth about who God is, who we are, other people as well, that will really act as barriers to experiencing the abundant life that is actually available to us.

Laura Dugger: In Christian circles, I know that the written word is lifted high, and rightfully so, but I don't want us to miss the living word. Will you tell us a little bit more about the "living word"?

Ken Baugh: Yeah, I like to say that the written word is always pointing us to the living word, who is Jesus. John 1:1, the word became flesh and dwelt among us. And knowing God's word is essential. But it should always be pointing us into a deeper knowledge of who God is and who we are and the relationship that has been made available to us in Christ. [00:08:22]

God is a relational being. He's existed for all eternity in the triune community of Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. So the written word should contribute to the quality of our relationship with the living word.

This is what didn't happen with the Pharisees. They knew the written word backwards and forwards, but it had no effect on their hearts. It wasn't a catalyst for a quality of change in their relationship with God.

That's what I think we all need to be careful of that we don't miss. Because biblical truth is essential to our growth in Christ, but knowing God involves more than just knowing facts about God. You can actually know a lot of facts about God, but not really know God. And I think that that's an important distinction.

In fact, in Ephesians 3.19, the apostle Paul refers to knowing the love of God in a way that surpasses knowledge. [00:09:23] And that might sound odd. It's like, well, how do we do that? Well, it's through relationship.

So we have a relationship with a risen, live Savior. And the opportunity for us to experience relationship with him is similar to any other relationship we would have with another living being. So it's just quite extraordinary what is actually possible for us and how the written word can contribute to the growth in our understanding of who God is and the quality of our relationship with God.

Laura Dugger: I learn so much through examples. So could you even give some examples from your own life or from your wife Susan's life of how you interact with the living word and what that relationship looks like for you?

Ken Baugh: Oh, gosh, so many different ways. One of the things is just memorizing and meditating on scripture and how that is so transformative in just the neural pathways in our brain and how it is so helpful in basically rewiring our brain and so forth. [00:10:33]

Susan and I have spent a lot of time memorizing scripture and letting that memorization process give us the ability to really meditate on the truth of God's word kind of 24-7. When we train ourselves to become aware of God's presence all around us and that He is loving us in so many different ways, but we're just not dialed into that frequency to understanding...

In fact, I just had a coaching meeting with one of my clients and we were talking about something very similar to this. And I said, "I want you to go about your next week and go into each day and before you leave the house, ask the Lord to reveal to you five or ten different ways that He loves you just throughout the course of your day. So I want you to kind of put those glasses on. And so when things come up throughout the day, maybe you see something that's beautiful or you have a conversation with somebody that you didn't expect or a situation takes place, I want you to internalize that situation as a way of God expressing His love for you." [00:11:46] And he's like, "Wow, that's really cool." So I'm actually anxious to see the next time we meet how that plays out. So there's a lot of different ways you can have fun with this and it can be super practical.

Laura Dugger: Well, speaking of practicality, what are some practical ways we can cultivate an awareness of the Holy Spirit amid all the distractions we may be facing?

Ken Baugh: I think, Laura, we have to be really intentional about that because we are so busy and are consumed with so many distractions, whether it's social media, television, radio, podcasts, right? I mean, everything that can be used for good can also be used for bad to keep us distracted from really kind of dialing into God's frequency.

I think some practical ways of doing that is dialing in, is making time, regular time, whether it's in our day or certainly in our week where we are spending time alone with God. [00:12:47] Whether that be a time of silence or solitude, maybe you go for a walk in your neighborhood or on the beach, for us, or whatever and just kind of in a sense picture Jesus right there walking with you. Because He is right there with you. You just don't have the eyes to see it. But we know through the eyes of faith that He is always with us.

I think, again, it's just recognizing – and I think creation, I think the world around us can be a great helper in that. I mean Paul in Romans 1:20 says that God's invisible qualities and eternal power and divine nature have been clearly seen being understood from what has been made. So God's fingerprints are all over creation, and if we take the time to pay attention to it, then I think we're going to see things that we would completely miss otherwise.

If you're driving down the freeway at 65 miles an hour and there's a flower on the side of the road, chances are you're not going to see that flower. [00:13:47] But if you're driving at two miles an hour or you're standing still and you look out and that flower is there, you're going to see it. I just think we miss things all the time where God is like, Hey, Laura, I want you to know I love you. Here's a... oh, darn, she missed it. Okay, let's do another one." You know?

I just think that's the way God sees us. When we start dialing into that reality that that's how he sees us, man, it's going to have a radical impact on how we think and our quality of life.

Laura Dugger: Such a helpful word picture. Even today, this is a very common occurrence in parenting. I will feel helpless or clueless at different times. We have four young daughters. Even today, just talking with Jesus through my prayer life while I'm with the children and trying to discern what to do next, I was just reminded I'm so grateful that He is always here. He is always available. [00:14:47]

Ken Baugh: Yeah, absolutely.

Laura Dugger: Let's take a quick break to hear a message from our sponsor.

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Laura Dugger: On a different topic, Ken, when did you become interested in the intersection of brain science and spiritual formation?

Ken Baugh: That might be kind of counterintuitive. It's like, how can brain science inform me in my discipleship with Jesus or my relationship with God? When I was doing research for my dissertation, I discovered that many Christians – and this came out of my 25 years of pastoral ministry as well – just feel stuck in their faith and are very disillusioned.

People who love Jesus, who have walked with Him for years, have read their Bible and prayed and served and given generously, and worship in church with other believers find themselves stuck in a myriad of addictions and experiencing a host of emotional problems. [00:17:01] It wasn't for lack of information or sincerity on these people's part.

One of the primary reasons I came to discover all of this is that when you go back to scripture, you will find so much evidence of what we think about and how it affects us over and over and over again. You find that. I'll just give you a couple of examples.

Romans 12:2: Be transformed by the renewal of your mind. Second Corinthians 10:5: Take every thought captive to obey Christ. Ephesians 4:21-24. Let the spirit renew your thoughts and attitudes. Philippians 4:8: Whatever is true, honorable, just, pure, lovely, commendable, excellent, anything worthy of praise, think about these things. Colossians 3:2: Set your minds on things above non-earthly. I mean I could go on and on and on.

As I was doing my research as to what is it that is keeping people stuck, it's too easy to just say, well, it's sin. [00:18:04] Well, of course it is sin, but that's not helpful. We have to get more specific than that.

And then as I started looking at how that gets repaired, how hurt is resolved that is keeping us stuck and maybe causing us to act out in ways that are sinful or hurtful, I kept bringing that knowledge back to Scripture and seeing this overwhelming evidence of how important our thought life is. And then when I started pairing that up together, I started seeing things that were like, wow, this is very consistent.

So this whole idea of Christ's formation, this model of discipleship that I feel like I've kind of stumbled into is really built on a robust biblical theology but is infused with findings from both psychology and neurology. When we look at kind of this holistic perspective and how God created us and how He created our brains to work, it starts giving us insight into things as to why we might not be experiencing the abundant life that is available to us. [00:19:08]

Laura Dugger: Yes! Just to elaborate on that further, I have your book open to page 85 and I'll just read a couple sentences. But you're talking about the brain and you say that "neurons are birthed by thoughts. The more you think about something, the more neurons are developed around that thought and the stronger and more influential that thought becomes. Remember, thoughts stimulate emotions, emotions affect decisions, and all these gears turning together drive behavior. This is why most of what we do can be traced back to thinking patterns."

From your study, can you just share a little bit more about your findings around that topic?

Ken Baugh: Yeah. When you look at how God created human beings, and I'm going to be overly simplistic just for illustration purposes, God created us as material beings. So we have a physical body and he created us with an immaterial part, which is the Bible refers to in a number of different ways. [00:20:12] Those would include spirit, mind, inner being.

The most common word used in scripture to refer to that immaterial self is "heart". Then when you dive into understanding the heart, both Old and New Testament, you find a consistent thread that there's three primary dynamics of the heart, thought, emotion, and will.

I kind of liken them to gears in a car's transmission. When one gear turns, right, when you're thinking gear turns, let's say it's going to turn the gear of your emotions, that's going to turn the gear of your will, that's then going to promote behavior.

So we can see why Jesus focused so much of his teaching on the heart. You can see why Solomon in Proverbs 4:23 says to guard your heart for it's the wellspring of life, that there's this overwhelming, again, evidence throughout scripture of our heart. [00:21:13]

And the reason is, is because what you think about is going to affect how you feel, which is going to affect your will, your desires, that then are going to influence behavior. So behavior is always a matter of the heart.

You can always resolve behavior, not by stopping the behavior. That's not what you focus your attention on. You focus on what's going on in the heart that is producing the behavior. When we start exploring that, we start realizing more and more that the only thing that we can control directly is our thought life. We can choose what we're going to think about. We are not slaves to our thoughts. You can't control your emotions directly, but you can control them indirectly by what you choose to think about.

It is true that you can control your will to a certain extent. But you and I both know that willpower is only sustainable for so long. Just think about the last New Year's resolution you made, right? [00:22:13] So we don't need to directly be able to control those other things. If we control just our thoughts, that is then going to affect our emotions, our will, that are then going to play out in our behavior.

Now, there's other things that drive behavior too that we don't think about that are pre-conscious or non-conscious. But the predominantly important dynamic of the heart that is referred to overwhelmingly in scripture is what we think about.

Laura Dugger: I think that was one of my biggest takeaways from your book. It was so empowering and spirit-led because it's from the Bible. But just that encouragement, that meditating on the word and getting the right thoughts in our brain, that will affect everything and really lead us into the abundant life in Christ.

Ken Baugh: Yeah. And Laura, let me just back up on something you mentioned earlier. The section that you read out of the book is really important to understand because the more we think about something over and over and over again, those neurons – neurons are just the brain cells that emit electrical signals. [00:23:20] And the more you think a thought, that thought creates this current, if you will, that creates other neurons.

So you can actually create matter, which a neuron is a particle, right, it's matter, you can create matter by what you choose to think about. So the more you think about something, those neurons are firing together and they're building a stronger connection between those other neurons so that that particular thought over time and repetition becomes the dominant way you're going to think about something.

It's not unlike if your parents bought a little cabin at the lake when you were a kid and it was an old cabin and it had been abandoned for a while and you guys are fixing it up and there's no real path to get down to the dock where the water is.

So the first time you go down there, you got to kind of go through the brush and maybe cut some stuff out and so forth. But the more often you walk that path over time, over and over and over again, you create a path that then gets you to the dock quickly. [00:24:27]

In a similar way, that's how our thinking plays itself out. The more you think about something over, whether it's positive or negative, the more likely that becomes the dominant way of thinking that's going to affect how you feel. It's going to affect your will. That's going to affect your behavior.

Laura Dugger: It's just so fascinating and leaves me in awe of our creator to think about all of that and the possibilities with neuroplasticity and the grace that's available.

Something we love to share at The Savvy Sauce is joy. If you want to share joy too, will you take a moment and share this episode or any of your previous favorites with a friend? You can post it on social media and tag us at The Savvy Sauce. You could text it to a friend who could use specific encouragement on one of the topics that we've covered. Or you could email articles to loved ones that you read on TheSavvySauce.com under our "Articles" tab. Whichever route you choose, we invite you to share joy along with us. [00:25:29]

How does meditating on scripture help rewire our brains?

Ken Baugh: That's such a great question. Remember what we've talked about, that the more you think about a thought, the more neurons are created around that thought and the stronger that thought becomes. So if you are worrying about something and you're thinking about worst-case scenarios, you're thinking catastrophically or whatever, that worry is going to dominate your thinking. It's going to create emotions that are going to create anxiety that's going to have a negative effect.

Well, the opposite is true as well. If you're meditating on scripture, you're meditating on the truth of God's word, what God says is true, you're creating new neural pathways based on the repetition of the memorization process and the meditation process, that you're going over it and over it and over it and over it. And that's then going to produce healthy emotions that are going to influence your will and desires in a way that are then going to be worked out much differently in your behavior than the other negative dynamics. [00:26:39] Does that help?

Laura Dugger: Yes, that's super helpful. Just thinking, we focused on this spiritual discipline of scripture memorization, but what are some of the other spiritual disciplines that you would recommend, especially for someone maybe who's never heard that term before?

Ken Baugh: Think of spiritual disciplines as exercises, spiritual exercises. Some people get nervous when you start talking about, well, wait a second here, I didn't think that I was supposed to do anything. I thought that grace is about unmerited favor and all that. And of course, grace is.

Dallas Willard reminded us that grace is opposed to earning. It's not opposed to effort. There is lots of biblical evidence that we are essentially partnering with the Holy Spirit in our own Christ formation. There are a number of aspects of salvation that we play no part in, right? Regeneration — that's the work of the spirit of God. [00:27:40] Justification — you mentioned early on in the podcast — that's an act of God alone. Glorification is an act of God alone. But there's a dynamic in our sanctification, which is progressive, meaning it's ongoing. That's the only part in our salvation that we actually participate in.

And so where do you find that in scripture? Well, goodness, it's everywhere. I'll just give you a couple examples, and it's in my book on page 153. Walk by the spirit. Let us also keep in step with the spirit. It takes effort on our part to walk in the spirit, right?

Ephesians 5:18, Be filled with the spirit. That's a direct command. That's an imperative in the Greek. Ephesians 4:22, Put off your old self. Be renewed in the spirit of your minds. Philippians 2:12, Work out your salvation with fear and trembling.

That Philippians 2 verse is really important because Paul is saying work out your salvation, not work for your salvation. [00:28:43] Our salvation that we have in Christ, our justification, regeneration is taken care of at the cross. That's the gift of salvation, the gift of grace given to us that we don't deserve, right? That's all based on God's grace, His love, and so forth. But the growth process after salvation is what we get to participate in.

Think about a farmer. A farmer can't make the crop grow, but he can plow the soil, plant the seed, water the seed, fertilize the seed. Essentially, he can create the environment where growth will take place.

In a similar way, we have the ability to do certain things that then the Holy Spirit takes and produces growth from. For example, Scripture is part of our spiritual growth exercise program, if you will. And yet the Spirit of God doesn't do the reading for us. We have to exert the effort to sit down, open our Bibles, and start to read. [00:29:45] The Spirit then uses the word to bring about awareness, to bring about understanding, because part of His role is to guide us into all truth. And so He does the growing part, but we get to participate in some of the action of that. So it's a partnership. It's a limited partnership, but it's still a partnership.

Laura Dugger: I think that's really exciting that we're invited into that process and we get to participate. Going back to something you had talked about earlier, as we're looking at the way we think and what thoughts we're filling our minds with, you also write about there are four forces. That most heavily influence the way we think about things. Can you share what those four forces are and why that even matters?

Ken Baugh: Yeah. There's a lot of things, Laura, that really do affect why we think the way we do and so forth. But there's four kind of big ones that I think create important categories. [00:30:47] One is our family of origin. The second is our culture that we were raised in, our ethnicity. Painful life experiences is also a huge shaping factor as well as any kind of church background or church experiences. These really affect our perception of ourself, our perception of God, our perception of others.

Let's just take culture and ethnicity, for example. A woman raised in the Middle East is going to have a very different experience culturally than a woman who's raised in the West. Even in America, there's quite cultural differences between the Pacific Northwest and California, for example. Or you go into the South, right? I have friends that live in the deep South, in Louisiana. My dad's family is from Arkansas. That's a very different culture. We lived in Washington, D.C. for ten and a half years and that's a very different culture. If you go to Maine or Connecticut, that's different.

So all of those cultural dynamics are going to have an effect on us. [00:31:48] Your church experience will have an effect on you as well. What that church teaches about God and how they understand scripture. So if you're raised in that, that's going to be a primary lens that you look through to understand what is true, what is real.

I think one of the things that is really important for all of us to remember is that we read scripture through our own filters. The scripture itself is the inerrant word of God. But my ability to understand the inerrant word of God is always going to be seen through various filters of how my heart has been shaped to see and to know God. And so I think we just have to really come to scripture humbly.

It's not that we can't understand the truth of scripture, but we have to realize that we're going to have our own prejudices and biases. And that's where we really need the work of the spirit in our lives to help guide us into what is true.

Laura Dugger: Well, that is really helpful, Ken, to get to hear what does impact the way that we think about things. [00:32:51] But then if someone recognizes those four things, what can they begin to do about that to maybe correct some false beliefs and grow more in truth?

Ken Baugh: I think you really hit it, is that we have to be students of the word to know what God says is true, because what He says is true is true. Whether I believe it or not, it's the truth. We have the spirit of God dwelling in us and we have also, as Paul reminds us, has been given the mind of Christ. So we have the capacity to understand what is true. But it's helpful if we can identify where some of those misperceptions or distortions have come from.

For example, let's say you were raised in a church where God was promoted as being very stern and stoic maybe, constantly angry. And so the culture was fear and that the motivation for the fear was to get you to behave. [00:33:53] Well, that's going to have a radical effect on your perception of God. That's going to really determine whether you move toward God or away from God.

But as you start reading Scripture, you start saying, well, wait a second. God defines Himself as loving and compassionate, long-suffering, that He is a heavenly Father, a good heavenly Father, He's a shepherd, right? You have all these metaphors, all these various ways that God reveals Himself to us in Scripture. And then you let that truth start challenging some of the beliefs that you have and let your faulty beliefs be overridden by what God says is true. And so there's other things that you can do. But, I mean, that's one of the really practical ways you can identify the false belief and then address it in Scripture.

I think that's what Paul is kind of getting at when he's talking about taking every thought captive to Christ. Essentially, you're taking a thought and you're comparing that to what God says is true in his word. And then you have a choice: Am I going to believe what God says is true or am I going to believe this liar distortion of the enemy? [00:34:55]

Laura Dugger: Okay. Then I just have one other follow-up question kind of related to everything mixed together that we've talked about so far. What about the believer who has made that decision? They've surrendered their life to Christ. Maybe they're feeling, if they're really honest with themselves, that something's a little bit lacking, it's not quite what they expected but they are not participating in any way. They're recognizing that Jesus' work is finished and they're settling for that, which is hard to even articulate when I say settling for that. But if you know what I mean, what encouragement would you give them and what danger do you see if they choose to continue that lifestyle?

Ken Baugh: Well, I think the danger is that they're going to be hindering their own progress in their relationship with Christ. It's not unlike marriage or any kind of a friendship if you're not married. It takes time to cultivate and nurture that relationship.

If I were to just tell Susan 35 years ago on the day we got married, I love you, and I haven't told her that for the last 35 years, then that's going to create a problem. [00:36:03] And we're going to have a different kind of relationship because I haven't cultivated and nurtured that love in a way that's demonstrative to her.

I think this is an important question, Laura, because I think a lot of Christians struggle with this idea of activity, that I'm supposed to do something that helps me grow in Christ. Because we have bought into this idea that grace is only about unmerited favor when it is that, but it's also about the unmerited power of God unto salvation.

So if you call it spiritual discipline, spiritual exercises, activities, whatever you want to call it, those activities themselves don't do anything. It's the Holy Spirit's work as we are doing those works that he works through those things, like reading scripture, to bring about a greater awareness, to bring about growth and understanding.

So if we don't take action on those things, we're going to stay very young in our faith. [00:37:03] We're not going to mature. We're going to be stuck on milk instead of solid food.

Laura Dugger: I pray that even this conversation is a catalyst for all of us to seek those deeper levels of relationship with God and to participate even more than we have in the past. Ken, this time has been fascinating, but if people want to follow up with you online after this conversation, where would you direct them?

Ken Baugh: I'd love to interact with your audience. So our website is idtministries.com. It stands for the Institute for Discipleship Training. Idtministries.com. We're in the process of getting ready to launch our own podcast. We already have a number of things up on YouTube. These are all free resources for folks. And I'll be doing some webinars on the book. And then we'll be also offering some subscription services for folks that want to dive deeper into the material. And then there's also coaching opportunities if they would like. So there's just a plethora of resources that are available that we're continuing to add to to really help people really experience the abundant life to a degree that maybe they thought was ever possible. [00:38:15]

Laura Dugger: That is so exciting. We will certainly link to all of that in our show notes to make it easy for people to find. And you may know that we're called The Savvy Sauce because "savvy" is synonymous with practical knowledge or insight. We would love to hear your practical life tips today. So, Ken, is my final question for you, what is your Savvy Sauce?

Ken Baugh: Oh, gosh. How about this? The Christian life is not merely about the forgiveness of sin so that you go to heaven when you die, but about becoming a new person, belonging to a new family, and therefore experiencing a new quality of life, of abundance, filled with more love, joy, peace, and hope than you ever thought possible.

Laura Dugger: Amen to that. Ken, thank you so much for teaching us freeing truth today. I sincerely appreciate you being my guest. [00:39:14]

Ken Baugh: Thanks, Laura. It's been great being with you. You ask great questions.

Laura Dugger: Thank you.

One more thing before you go. Have you heard the term "gospel" before? It simply means good news. And I want to share the best news with you. But it starts with the bad news. Every single one of us were born sinners and God is perfect and holy, so He cannot be in the presence of sin. Therefore, we're separated from Him.

This means there's absolutely no chance we can make it to heaven on our own. So for you and for me, it means we deserve death and we can never pay back the sacrifice we owe to be saved. We need a savior. But God loved us so much, He made a way for His only Son to willingly die in our place as the perfect substitute.

This gives us hope of life forever in right relationship with Him. That is good news. Jesus lived the perfect life we could never live and died in our place for our sin. [00:40:18] This was God's plan to make a way to reconcile with us so that God can look at us and see Jesus.

We can be covered and justified through the work Jesus finished if we choose to receive what He has done for us. Romans 10:9 says that if you confess with your mouth Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved.

So would you pray with me now? Heavenly, Father, thank You for sending Jesus to take our place. I pray someone today right now is touched and chooses to turn their life over to You. Will You clearly guide them and help them take their next step in faith to declare You as Lord of their life? We trust You to work and change their lives now for eternity. In Jesus name, we pray, amen.

If you prayed that prayer, you are declaring Him for me, so me for Him, you get the opportunity to live your life for Him. [00:41:18]

At this podcast, we are called Savvy for a reason. We want to give you practical tools to implement the knowledge you have learned. So you're ready to get started?

First, tell someone. Say it out loud. Get a Bible. The first day I made this decision my parents took me to Barnes and Noble to get the Quest NIV Bible and I love it. Start by reading the book of John.

Get connected locally, which basically means just tell someone who is part of the church in your community that you made a decision to follow Christ. I'm assuming they will be thrilled to talk with you about further steps such as going to church and getting connected to other believers to encourage you.

We want to celebrate with you too. So feel free to leave a comment for us if you made a decision for Christ. We also have show notes included where you can read Scripture that describes this process.

Finally, be encouraged. Luke 15:10 says, "In the same way, I tell you, there is rejoicing in the presence of the angels of God over one sinner who repents." [00:42:21] The heavens are praising with you for your decision today.

If you've already received this good news, I pray that you have someone else to share it with today. You are loved and I look forward to meeting you here next time.

Welcome to The Savvy Sauce

Practical chats for intentional living

A faith-based podcast and resources to help you grow closer to Jesus and others. Expect encouragement, surprises, and hope here. Each episode offers lively interviews with fascinating guests such as therapists, authors, non-profit founders, and business leaders.

They share their best practices and savvy tips we can replicate to make our daily life and relationships more enjoyable!