217. Tween/Teen Females: How to Navigate Changes during Puberty with Dr. Jennifer Degler
*DISCLAIMER* This episode includes adult content and is not intended for young ears.
Psalm 142:1+2 (NIV) "I cry aloud to the Lord;
I lift up my voice to the Lord for mercy.
I pour out before him my complaint;
before him I tell my trouble."
**Transcription Below**
Questions and Topics We Discuss:
Emotionally, what changes can we expect from our daughters as they go through puberty, both what we may notice externally and what they are experiencing internally?
It seems like these years can be full of ups and downs, but how can we identify when it is more severe and we need to seek outside help?
What do you notice parents and daughters struggling with most during this time?
Dr. Jennifer Degler is a Psychologist, life coach, author, and speaker. She is known for her frank, funny, energetic seminars which weave together practical information and Scripture with real life examples from her clinical practice and her own marriage and family. She loves audience involvement and keeping a group on their toes, meaning no one gets sleepy during her talks, and everyone goes home with apply-it-now tools for successful living, satisfying relationships, and improved emotional health.
Audiences say she could’ve been a standup comedian, but Dr. Jennifer prefers helping people through her central Kentucky counseling practice and writing books like No More Christian Nice Girl and the Deck of Dares: 40 Dares to Make Your Marriage Sizzle. Her fabulous adult children, Josie and Jake, delight in telling their friends that their mom runs a sex shop when, in reality, she founded CWIVES.com, a ministry to help Christian wives make their sex lives sizzle. When she’s not podcasting and blogging about emotional wellness, relationships, sex, and spiritual growth on the JenniferDegler.com website, you can find her teaching a women’s Sunday School class, kayaking, and enjoying her empty nest with her high school sweetheart husband, Jeff.
Dr. Jennifer Degler's Previous Episode on The Savvy Sauce:
Other Recommended Episodes:
Episode 182: Things I Wish I'd Known Before My Child Became a Teenager with Dr. Gary Chapman
200 Planting Seeds of Faith in Our Children with Courtney DeFeo
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Gospel Scripture: (all NIV)
Romans 3:23 “for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,”
Romans 3:24 “and are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus.”
Romans 3:25 (a) “God presented him as a sacrifice of atonement, through faith in his blood.”
Hebrews 9:22 (b) “without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness.”
Romans 5:8 “But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us.”
Romans 5:11 “Not only is this so, but we also rejoice in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have now received reconciliation.”
John 3:16 “For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.”
Romans 10:9 “That if you confess with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.”
Luke 15:10 says “In the same way, I tell you, there is rejoicing in the presence of the angels of God over one sinner who repents.”
Romans 8:1 “Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus”
Ephesians 1:13–14 “And you also were included in Christ when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation. Having believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit, who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God’s possession- to the praise of his glory.”
Ephesians 1:15–23 “For this reason, ever since I heard about your faith in the Lord Jesus and your love for all the saints, I have not stopped giving thanks for you, remembering you in my prayers. I keep asking that the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the glorious Father, may give you the spirit of wisdom and revelation, so that you may know him better. I pray also that the eyes of your heart may be enlightened in order that you may know the hope to which he has called you, the riches of his glorious inheritance in the saints, and his incomparably great power for us who believe. That power is like the working of his mighty strength, which he exerted in Christ when he raised him from the dead and seated him at his right hand in the heavenly realms, far above all rule and authority, power and dominion, and every title that can be given, not only in the present age but also in the one to come. And God placed all things under his feet and appointed him to be head over everything for the church, which is his body, the fullness of him who fills everything in every way.”
Ephesians 2:8–10 “For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith – and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God – not by works, so that no one can boast. For we are God‘s workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do.“
Ephesians 2:13 “But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far away have been brought near through the blood of Christ.“
Philippians 1:6 “being confident of this, that he who began a good work in you will carry it on to completion until the day of Christ Jesus.”
**Transcription**
[00:00:00] <music>
Laura Dugger: Welcome to The Savvy Sauce, where we have practical chats for intentional living. I'm your host Laura Dugger, and I'm so glad you're here.
[00:00:18] <music>
Laura Dugger: The principles of honesty and integrity that Sam Leman founded his business on continue today, over 55 years later, at Sam Leman Chevrolet Eureka. Owned and operated by the Bertschi Family, Sam Leman in Eureka appreciates the support they've received from their customers all over central Illinois and beyond. Visit them today at LemanGM.com.
Today's message is not intended for little ears. We'll be discussing some adult themes, and I want you to be aware before you listen to this message.
Dr. Jennifer Degler has been a popular guest previously on The Savvy Sauce when we discussed how to enhance females' pleasure and enjoyment of sex. Today, we're shifting to discuss a much different age group, tween and teen girls, and what to expect as their bodies change and they enter puberty. [00:01:19]
This is an incredibly helpful conversation for both parents of daughters in this age group, as well as for the daughter herself. It's a gift to gain self-awareness and understand what changes are taking place in their bodies and their minds. So I hope people of all ages get to listen to this episode and glean wisdom from Dr. Jennifer Degler.
Here's our chat.
Welcome back to The Savvy Sauce, Dr. Degler.
Dr. Jennifer Degler: Thank you so much, Laura. I just love your podcast, and I'm excited to be able to share with your listeners again.
Laura Dugger: Well, I have to say that your previous episode was truly one of my all-time favorites, so it's such a joy to get to have you back today. For anyone who missed our previous chat, will you just share a bit about who you are and what kind of work you get to do?
Dr. Jennifer Degler: Sure. I am a clinical psychologist. I am in Kentucky, and I have a private practice here. I see a lot of individuals and couples. [00:02:23]
I also have a ministry called CWIVES, which stands for Christian Wives Initiating, Valuing, and Enjoying Sex. I'm kind of known as the sex lady. I speak on sex and have a website to help Christian wives help make their sex lives sizzle. We offer the dare of the month to help them initiate creative sexual encounters, just have lots of fun resources that are safe for Christian couples to access to help in that area.
Then I also do a lot of trauma recovery work and speaking on anxiety and sort of a variety of things that I do. I'm a wife and a mother of two grown children. My son just got married last weekend, so we've launched them both, and just enjoying empty nest life with my husband.
Laura Dugger: Wow. Congratulations on a wedding in the family.
Dr. Jennifer Degler: Thank you. They are someone else's responsibility now, which is really fun.
[00:03:22] Laura Dugger: Oh, I love it. And you are so gifted with the work that you do. So I'll make sure that we include a link in our show notes that can direct us back to that original episode when we did address married women.
But today we're actually going to discuss a much different age group. And I want to hear your insight on teen and tween girls. So as a clinician and as a mom, what is a broad overview that we can expect if we have a daughter this age?
Dr. Jennifer Degler: Some of the best times of your life and some of the most challenging times of your life as you raise a girl. Overall, I think what many parents experience when they're raising a girl is that those elementary age years, particularly 6 to 10 years of age, we call those the golden years.
Girls are oftentimes just really a delight. They want to be with you. They think you're the most amazing adults in the world. They want to please. It's a really fun time. [00:04:29]
Then about two years before your daughter starts her period, there are changes happening hormonally in her body. And so oftentimes the average age of beginning menstruation, menarche is the technical term for that, is around age 12 in America.
When girls are around 10, which is typically somewhere around fourth grade into fifth grade, you begin to see a shift and she may become more emotional, more moody. You just notice, Okay, this child isn't quite as delightful as she used to be. Even while her personality is continuing to develop, you may see just more emotional changes and more conflict can begin.
Then as they begin their period somewhere around 12 and then go into middle school and into high school, oftentimes for daughters and mothers, that can be some of the rockiest times because you have two women, both of whom are still riding that roller coaster of hormones. [00:05:37]
Your daughter is trying to figure out who she is as a person while also still wanting to stay connected to you. So it's a time where we as moms need to be really strong in who we are as people, because you'll tend to get a lot more pushback and just sometimes negative feedback about yourself from your daughter during that time period.
It can be quite a shock, Laura, to go from being just adored to where they want to be with you all the time, to where to them you're the most embarrassing person in the world. And watching her body develop, watching her deal with body image issues, perhaps can stir up things inside of you as a woman if you also have body image issues. And so it can be quite a roller coaster.
Laura Dugger: I think that's a great description. As our tween or teen daughters age and they're going through what you've explained about their hormones changing and fluctuating, are there any other symptoms or effects that we might see as a result? [00:06:48]
Dr. Jennifer Degler: Girls follow steps of physical development that can kind of let you know, Okay, here's what's going on inside them. The pattern is as they're approaching puberty, the first thing you see in girls is breast buds. So instead of having that completely basically flat chest, they begin to get those little breast buds.
Then next is the appearance of pubic hair, followed by a big growth spurt, then armpit hair, and then their first period. So breast bud development happens earlier. It can happen as early as eight years old. Usually, it's around 10 years old, so typically around fourth grade.
It's important that we tell girls during this time period, you know, it's normal for one breast to be smaller than the other as they develop, because sometimes girls will see a difference and they'll think, Oh, my gosh, I've got breast cancer or something like that. [00:07:51] It's just going ahead and letting your girl know that.
Pubic hair typically is happening around age 11, but it can happen as young as eight. Then there's this growth spurt that typically starts around age 10, typically peaks at around age 11. And that's when you're just noticing, oh, my goodness, her shoes don't fit, her shorts don't fit anymore, shirts are too tight.
The armpit hair, typically that's happening in the 12th year. Armpit hair is the best indicator that your daughter is about to start her period. Usually, that first period will occur within three to six months if she hasn't already started her period.
Sometimes they start their period and then they get armpit hair. But typically, once you see that, you know, Okay, the menarche is coming. Typically, as I said, menarche is most commonly happens during the 12th year. It can happen as early as eight. It can happen much later into the teens for girls as well.
A hundred years ago, the average age was around 17. [00:09:01] It just has gradually as nutrition has gotten better, as there's more hormones in what we eat. Unfortunately, it has started earlier and earlier. But that breast buds, pubic hair, big growth spurt, armpit hair, first period, those are the things to be looking for in between, girl.
Laura Dugger: That is so helpful to have this timeline even to share with our daughters if they're listening to this episode alongside us, just to kind of know what to expect. But also, I'm curious, is there anything you're aware of where the daughter is likely to start around the same age that her mother experienced her first menstrual cycle?
Dr. Jennifer Degler: Yes, Laura, you're absolutely correct. The age you were at the time you started your period is really a great predictor of about when your daughter may start as well. [00:09:59] And kind of knowing that, like in your family, about what age did your sisters, your mother, your aunt start their period?
It's also interesting to know that from your husband's genetics are contributing there, too. Like with his family, were they around 12 or were they early or were they late? And then just kind of knowing, Okay, it's kind of a kind of a combination of those two things.
Sort of like birth weight. You can take your husband's birth weight and your birth weight, assuming we're both full-term babies, and average them and you kind of get a pretty good idea how much your babies are going to weigh.
So that's why it's important that we're not just talking about this sort of thing with our girls, but also with our moms. Like we need this family information so that this becomes something that the women and our family just talk about. We just share this type of information rather than thinking it's something that we need to keep hidden or that we're ashamed of. [00:10:58]
Laura Dugger: I love that point. Because even beginning these conversations early, I'm assuming this would also help set them up well to have ongoing conversations about anything related to sex.
Dr. Jennifer Degler: Exactly. You know, hopefully the conversations that we're having about our bodies, we start those from when they're old enough to even understand language. So even when we're changing their diapers and when we're helping them potty train, we're using the correct names for their body parts.
One thing I'm seing now, Laura, is that they're trying to use more correct terminology for genitalia. But sometimes the entire female genitalia is referred to as the vagina. That's not correct. You do have a vaginal barrel and that is the birth canal. But the whole genitalia is, you know, we're referring to your vulva and the labia. So to understand that there are different parts. [00:12:00]
So we have to educate ourselves as moms and that we can begin to talk about these things. When your kids are young, you don't need to hide your pads from them, your tampons from them. That should be just something that's in your bathroom and that they understand in a very developmentally appropriate way what that is for.
We hide things we are ashamed of and we're uncomfortable talking about things that we're ashamed of. So that's why I know for me... I mean, I had to practice. My mom had one conversation with me about sex when I was in third grade, and that was only because I point-blank asked her. Then there was never another conversation. And what I learned about my period, I learned about in fourth grade in public school when we had our health class and never really had any other conversations about that.
So understanding this isn't just one talk that you have. [00:13:03] It should be just a continual thing as your child is growing up that you periodically come back to and you talk about. Then that's really what makes your child feel like I can come to you with my questions. It's not I never talk to you about any of this, then I have one talk with you and I say to you, "Now, I want you to always come to me if you have questions." They're not going to. They will not.
Your lack of conversation about this over the years has made it clear this is something we just don't talk about in our family. So keep having those conversations from an early age.
Laura Dugger: Well, then I would think another conversation once our daughters are having their menstrual cycle. Is it common for all of the women in the home to sync up with each other or even friends who are around each other a lot?
Dr. Jennifer Degler: So funny question. [00:14:02] Laura, I used to say to my daughter when she would go away to college, and then our cycles would no longer be lined up and then she would come home in the summer, she would totally mess up my cycle. And I would be like, "Your young hormones are coming in and overwhelming my old hormones and they can't fight back. You're messing up my period." But yes, it's interesting, Laura.
We were referring earlier to things that are possibly accounting for the fact that girls are starting their period earlier and earlier. And a huge thing is better nutrition. But it's interesting, though, we can't see the effects of hormones of us just being around one another.
But girls' periods do tend to kind of line up over time. Like if you have a dorm full of girls and they're living around one another and then a lot of times their cycles will begin to align more. [00:15:02] But there has been some interesting research to show that girls who live with a stepfather instead of their biological father start their period a few months earlier on average than girls who were raised with a biological father.
So there is something about being around a man who is not 50% of your DNA that actually will bring on your period a little bit earlier, too. Again, that's not in any way to say that it's wrong to have a stepfather in the home or whatever. But I share that just to say there are things happening that we can't see.
We don't need to get all worried about at what age our daughter is going to start her period and did we do something right or did we give her this milk that had hormones and then... Don't stress out over that. [00:16:03]
The main thing we need to do is just be prepared as moms and that we've had conversations with our daughters and that whenever it does happen, then that's the right time. You don't need to stress about that. It's the right time.
And not to feel guilty. I feel like moms today, sometimes we get so much information that we just begin to beat up on ourselves and think, Oh, this should have happened at a different time. It happened too early or happened too late. Or my daughter was away at camp and she started her period and I wasn't there and I missed this big moment. No, no, no. You have lots and lots of moments to parent your children. Hopefully, you have been having some conversations along the way so that she's not caught off guard when her period does come.
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Laura Dugger: And even though we've experienced this as moms ourselves, can you just kind of remind us emotionally what's going to happen with our daughters as they're progressing through puberty? What may we notice externally and what are some things that we can expect them to experience internally?
Dr. Jennifer Degler: Because all of a sudden there are those sex hormones that are starting to produce those secondary sex characteristics that we mentioned like breast buds and pubic hair, along with those come interest in the opposite sex. Most of us as parents, I would say almost all of us as parents, we're not quite ready for our child to be interested. Like, Oh gosh, she's getting a little crush on boys or something like that.
So being able to just kind of talk about some of those things. That maybe you have a girl who's never really been interested in boys and all of a sudden she is. [00:19:16] Maybe she's always been really comfortable just like, you know, playing with the neighborhood boys, and all of a sudden she's getting more uncomfortable around them and feeling more aware of her own body or embarrassed, more modest.
That is one thing that as those sex hormones begin to develop and those secondary sex characteristics develop, girls oftentimes will become more modest. And so normally maybe it was no big deal to them if they were taking a bath or a shower and you came in. But now all of a sudden they don't want you in their room when they're changing clothes, they're embarrassed. They want their door closed. That's normal to feel that sense of modesty and that desire for privacy.
And then as well, just more of the moodiness. It's this push me, pull me thing emotionally where part of them often, I still want to be a little girl. And so, yeah, sometimes I do still want to sit in your lap and I want to put my head in your lap and I want to be a little girl. [00:20:21] But then there's this other part of me that's pulling "I want to be more like an adult" and trying to separate from you, which is part of that normal identity formation through the tweens and through the teens, especially figuring out who they are, what their opinions are.
But at the same time, in order to do that, they kind of need to be pushing you away. So maybe the things that you like that they've always kind of been like, Oh, yes, this is cool because mom likes it, now, all of a sudden they're like, "Well, I don't like that. The way that you dress, mom, it's so embarrassing. You're not cool. Walk behind me at the mall."
They maybe wanted to hold your hand as they were walking through the mall when they were in third grade and now all of a sudden they're embarrassed and they want you to walk behind them. They wanted you to come for lunch at school and then all of a sudden they're like, "No, no, that's embarrassing." [00:21:18]
And so understanding that push me, pull me thing that you experience from them where they're pulling you towards them. But then they're also pushing you away from them. That is normal. It can do a number on you as a parent if you're not ready for it. You feel like, Okay, I'm being rejected and this is what it's going to be like for the rest of our life. It's not. I promise you they're going to come back around again and you're going to develop a new adult relationship with your child that can be really neat and really special. But being aware that they need to do that push me, pull me during these tween and teen times.
Laura Dugger: You've warned us that it's going to be a season filled with ups and downs. But how can we also identify when it is more severe and we need to seek outside help? [00:22:18]
Dr. Jennifer Degler: That's a great question, Laura. I always encourage folks... They're always asking, Okay, how would I know if I need to take them for counseling? I encourage them to kind of look at their child's life and say, "Is my child struggling, really struggling in two or more areas?"
For instance, if they're just going through a patch where they're maybe struggling with some friendships, but they're doing really well academically and they're doing great at church and they are at home, they're getting along with their siblings and in general they're obedient and they enjoy they're laughing with family and whatnot, you probably don't need to take them for counseling.
It's when they're beginning like, Okay, I'm getting reports back from teachers that are troubling. And then we're also seeing at home we're having a lot more conflicts at home. Or so kind of think about is this showing up in two or more areas of their life at the same time? [00:23:22] Because that often can indicate they just need some more extra support.
Laura, what I encourage folks to do is when you're talking to a child or a teen about going to see a counselor, they will be probably most receptive to it if you kind of broach it like this to say, "You know, sometimes we all need some extra kind of coaching. Just like, you know, if you're playing soccer and maybe you need extra coaching around a skill or something like that. I've just noticed, you know, you've had a couple of challenges with school or maybe you're at home and I'm just wondering if you might be interested in a one-time consultation with a counselor. You could just go just this one time and just see this is a counselor that they specialize in talking to kids your age or teenagers your age. And you would just go one time and just see if this person has anything to offer you. And if you think it's helpful, we can make another appointment. And if you think, you know, they don't have anything that I'm interested in, then we'll drop it." [00:24:34]
In that, Laura, making it like a one-time consultation. A lot of times kids will then go ahead and say if they actually are needing some extra support, they'll say, Okay. Because otherwise, they feel like I'm going to go talk to this person for the rest of my life. I don't want to do that. And it's weird.
So giving them some control in the sense of you're going to go and you are going to check this counselor out. Not that this counselor is going to check you out, but you're going to check out the counselor. That a lot of times will get them in the door. And then many times if your child actually does need some extra support, then they'll be like, Yeah, I think I'd like to go back again.
Laura Dugger: I love even hearing that script. It's so practical and very helpful as a parent. But then I'm also wondering on the other side, when we may be overreacting as a parent and if we're very concerned with, like you said, the moodiness. [00:25:36] I've heard somebody tell me before that normal adolescent behavior for females is equivalent to what is diagnosable in adults.
Dr. Jennifer Degler: Would you say that's true in your experience as well? And let's not just characterize girls. Adolescents in general, there's just a moodiness that can be so frustrating and confusing. So I don't know whether I would call it diagnosable or not.
But if you just start reading through symptoms of different psychological disorders, I would say as a parent, if you're concerned, then you go and have a one-time consultation with a counselor or talk to their pediatrician and say, Okay, here's what I'm seeing. Is this normal? Is this just a normal rough patch that my child is going through? Because 99% of kids at some point will hit a rough patch and most kids will hit multiple little rough patches, whether that's friendships, whether that's academically, whether that's a teacher that they don't like or they don't get along with or a coach or they'll run into a rough patch with parents or with their siblings. [00:26:55] So understanding a rough patch can be just that.
Your job is to get them from childhood to launching them into adulthood. And there's a point at which when we start out, I'm kind of in control. And then over time, as we go through adolescence and we move you towards launching you into adulthood, more and more, I become more of a consultant to you instead of being somebody that's in control of a lot of things. So helping us make that transition.
And if at any point you feel like, I think this is so rough on my child that they need extra support, then you go and get a consultation with your pediatrician or with a counselor. And the two of you, based on what you're describing, can help figure out, do we need to bring somebody else in for a period of time to help my child? Whether that's a tutor, whether that's a counselor, whether that's a youth minister, an aunt, an uncle, someone that needs to come alongside for this period of time to help them navigate. [00:28:00]
Laura Dugger: If we look at big picture, throughout her development, are there certain foods or specific lifestyle choices that can support healthy development?
Dr. Jennifer Degler: Oh, absolutely. Right off the bat, do not give your daughter a smartphone until she is like 16. The epidemic that we're seeing of girls especially struggling with depression and anxiety, and so much of that I think is related to their phones, to too much exposure, to so much material through social media.
We did this with our kids and they were not happy about it at all, our daughter in particular. But now that they're adults, they understand why we did this. And this is something that they've said they want to do for their children as well.
Because daughters especially, their friends, oh my goodness, so much access to their friends and what their friends think of them. [00:29:04] You think about before there were smartphones, when your daughter came home and her house, her house could be a safe haven, but her friends aren't there. And if she's getting along with her friends, then she misses them. And that's great. But if she's not getting along or if they're saying mean things to her, or there's a lot of comparison that's happening with all the images on Instagram or TikTok or whatever it might be, then she brings that home with her, it's there in her bedroom with her as she looks at her phone.
And all of that is stirring up so much of the anxiety-related hormones. So all of a sudden, all this cortisol is flowing through your child's system that doesn't need to be there. That would be number one.
Another thing is just thinking about nutrition-wise, if anything is good for the heart, it's good for the brain. Their nervous system, the brain is the largest part of your nervous system. Your nervous system runs through your entire body. [00:30:02]
And that's the seed of emotion. So what your daughter is eating, is that feeding her brain or is that actually making it harder for her brain to operate in a healthy way so that she can process emotions more easily?
So things like making sure she's getting omega-3 fatty acids. So you might want to, again, check with your pediatrician and make sure this is safe for your particular daughter. But maybe taking some fish oil or some krill oil supplements, making sure, you know, are they eating things like salmon? If you could get them to eat salmon, leafy green vegetables. If all they're eating is junk, that is not helping their nervous system develop in a way that is going to help them emotionally or hormonally.
And likewise, getting exercise. We know getting out in a green space is really good for your brain. It's really good for your emotions. If the only exercise they're getting is like you go to soccer practice and that's it. Now that's great that they're going to soccer practice. But they need time to play. [00:31:14]
Play is a child's work. When a child is playing, whether they're playing with stuffed animals or playing make-believe, that is their work. That's when they're processing through emotions, understanding things, working through things. And so giving them plenty of time to play.
And taking the screens away so that they will play. That they actually get bored. Bored is a good thing. Because when we're bored is when we turn on our imagination.
And for kids and for tweens in particular, that's when they're doing this work that they need to do emotionally. So I would say keep them away from screens as much as you can. Don't give them a smartphone. Just do not give them a smartphone. Feed them healthy foods that are going to feed that nervous system. Then as well, lots of play and being outside. [00:32:13]
Laura Dugger: Again, that is so practical, which is always helpful because I think that that leads to transformational lives. I'm also wondering, even the spiritual life, when you look back with your daughter, is there anything when we're approaching this holistically, anything that you did to encourage her walk with the Lord?
Dr. Jennifer Degler: Oh, yes. Thank you for bringing that up. We are mind, body, and soul. God is a trinity. We are created in God's image. So we are a trinity as well.
So thinking of our children as these image bearers of God, mind, body, and soul, that those parts of them are what are we doing to help encourage healthy development in all of those areas?
And so spiritually, having conversations. And it's normal when kids, particularly as they get into middle school and to high school, they're going to be meeting more people that you don't have control over who they're meeting. [00:33:15]
When they're very young, we have a lot of control over who they spend time with. But then as they get older, we don't. And so they're going to be hearing different viewpoints. They're going to be talking to people who see the world differently than they do, who may not have a Christian worldview.
So to not be presenting those people as those are dangerous people that you don't need to talk to. But already from an early age, talking to your child about, you know, there are people in the world who believe a lot of things that are different than what we believe. And here is why we believe what we believe.
And then asking your child, what are you thinking about? Do you have any questions that are coming up in you about the Bible, about God, about Jesus, about church? Are there things that you're hearing other kids say? Because that's inquiring after their heart, which is so important in all three of those areas: mind, body, and soul. [00:34:18]
Not that we're just telling information at them or just talking at them, but we're inquiring after their heart. Like, what are you noticing in your body? Do you have questions about your body? Are there any fears that you have around your body? Are there any fears that are coming up inside of you about God or about religion or about church? Inquiring after their heart trains them to do the same thing. And it shows that they have value.
One of the things we did with our kids is that we really tried to be fun parents at church. I know my husband, he and I both loved to chaperone youth trips, and we made sure we were fun parents. Now, you know, we still had boundaries and made sure if kids needed to go to bed at a certain time, they needed to go to bed and that sort of thing. But we were fun. So our kids wanted us to be on those youth trips with them for church or to be a chaperone at youth camp. [00:35:21] And so we got to be a part of that. That was really special. It was hard. We did not get a lot of sleep. And we were there. We were part of the youth ministry. And, you know, we're there, whether my husband was helping run sound or I would work the snack table.
But just that we were there and we were showing them, we think your spiritual development is important and we're going to be a support role of that.
Then, of course, praying with them. Our daughter went through a stage kind of around 10th grade where she was taking an AP class in, I think, World History. And she just began to question, like, "I don't know if the Bible is really true." Part of me wanted to freak out, but part of me knew “don't freak out”. That's one of the most important things you can do as a parent is don't freak out. Instead, you need to learn to say, wow, tell me more about that. And listen.
And then also I begin to pray about, Okay, Lord, help. She's heard from me for years, but I need other people speaking into her life about the importance and the truth of the Bible. And God provided that. [00:36:38]
But she also knew at home it was a safe place to talk about doubts. We wouldn't freak out as she wrestled through her own faith that it was a safe place to do that. Just like it's a safe place to talk about, hey, all these weird things are happening in my body. What's going on here?
Laura Dugger: Have you checked out our library of articles available at TheSavvySauce.com? New posts are added multiple times a month related to parenting, intimacy and marriage, personal development, habits, and other topics connected to what we discuss here on The Savvy Sauce. If you sign up to join our email list, you're also going to enjoy little extras delivered straight to your inbox.
Our hope is to encourage you to have your own practical chats for intentional living. So these freebies will include things like questions that you can ask on your next date night, safe resources to read to promote enjoyment in your intimacy and marriage, or questions to ask your kids to connect at a more relational level. [00:37:38] We hope you check out all the available reads at TheSavvySauce.com under the "Articles" tab.
As we continue to think of our daughters in this phase, what would you say is a healthy role of friendship during this time?
Dr. Jennifer Degler: They're so important because they help normalize things for kids. Because particularly from about 6th, 7th, 8th, 9th grade, it's normal for kids to feel like I am the only person in the world who's going through this. I am weird. Everyone else is normal and I am weird because of all these things that are happening inside them, so emotionally.
That's what the role of friends do during this time is they see their friends are going through that too, and they can have conversations about that. So friendships are so important, but they can also be really tricky during this time. I think they can be particularly tricky for girls because oftentimes what we see in middle school with girls is a lot of cattiness or relational aggression. [00:38:46] It can be really painful.
And so it's important as moms that we walk beside our kids, but that we also don't get in and over control that too much. The role of friendship is really important. But your role as a parent, even though your child is spending more and more time with friends, talking more and more about friends, wanting to perhaps emulate friends more and more, your role is still very, very important.
Even when your child acts like your opinion is not important, your opinion is still very important to them. Your approval is still very important to them. That's why as parents, we need to have our own friends during this time so that we have a support group to help support us as we're supporting our daughters as they go through this.
Laura Dugger: Okay, that's a great point. Then as we flip it for parents during this phase, what are some ways that you recommend that we continue to take care of ourselves so that we're the healthiest version and holistically prepared to support our maturing daughters? [00:39:57]
Dr. Jennifer Degler: Great question, Laura. I'm surprised how many times parents have not sought out other parents of kids who are going through the same thing they're going through. It was so helpful to me.
My sister-in-law, her son had some of the same struggles that my son did. And it was really helpful for us to get together and just... not that we necessarily even planned out "today we're going to talk about our sons". But as we were kind of doing life together or having dinner together, to be able to talk about this is something my son is going through and to be like, yeah, my child is experiencing that too. And to talk about all the feelings that come up in you, the sadness, the disappointment, the anger, the confusion.
That really helps you as a parent keep things in perspective and take care of yourself. [00:40:55] Many times parents are hiding that their child's going through a struggle or that they're struggling with their child. I think social media can put this pressure on us that everybody else's life looks so perfect and we forget that social media is everyone's highlight reel. And so being willing to be honest and be vulnerable.
I think it's also helpful to get yourself extra support. If you need to go and talk to a counselor or a mentor to have older women in your life that have been through this. Laura, back when Jake was in kindergarten, he was six and I started going to a Bible study and there were small groups of women that would meet and then we would all come together for a bigger group.
And I was put in a group because I kind of joined late in the year. I was put in the group that had room, which was women who were all 10 to 20 years older than me and none of them had kids in elementary school. [00:41:53] At first I was so ticked off because I was like, "I don't want to be in a group of these old women." I wanted to make some friends with women that were my age.
Well, God knew what He was doing because that was the year that Jake was having all this testing done, was being diagnosed. We were getting him an individualized education plan. He was going to be in the resource room, tutoring was a lot. And those older women, as I would share about what I would cry about what we were going through, they would come to me privately and say, "Oh, honey, our son went through that" or "our daughter went through that and they just started college and your son's going to be okay." They were such an encouragement to me that this rough patch would not last forever and that my child would be okay.
I'm so grateful now to have had them in my life because they helped give me perspective that moms my age couldn't give me because they were in it too. [00:42:54] So I think having that deep and wide support network and being willing to be honest as a mom about how hard it can be to be a parent at times.
Laura Dugger: Oh, that's so good and memorable, deep and wide. Well, Dr. Jennifer, what do you notice parents and daughters struggling with most during this time?
Dr. Jennifer Degler: I think it's because it is such a transition time. You know, we forget that while our daughters are changing, we're changing, too. So if you have your children when they're babies somewhere in your 20s, early 30s, then as they're developing and becoming young women, you're getting older. And things are changing in you hormonally and the way you look changes. [00:43:52] Your relationships change. Your relationship with your parents, your relationship with your spouse, your relationship with career, your relationship with God.
We put so much energy and effort into raising our kids that it can be easy to forget stuff's going on with me too. That balance of taking care of your children, but not losing yourself while you're raising children. So I think that whole struggle goes easier when mom has a life of her own.
Dads tend to have a life of their own because most dads do work outside the home. But not all moms work outside the home. And even if they are working outside the home, there's so much pressure on moms. Motherhood is so idealized and idolized in American culture. [00:44:53] It's an incredible amount of pressure on women. And it's easy to lose yourself in it and then to feel like, Okay, my child is struggling, so I've done something wrong when in fact it's normal.
If your child doesn't have some struggles, I'm like, "Really?" Because I just don't hardly know anybody whose child didn't have any kind of struggles at all. That's why you as a mom get a life for yourself.
Make sure you're doing things for you that you have interest. That you're not just making sure your kids get enough exercise, but that you get some exercise. It may mean and often does mean that you say to your children, no, you can't do that third activity that you want to do because that will mean... not that you say this to your child, but you're thinking, "I will be running you so many different places that I won't have time to go to the gym myself. I won't have time to go for a run. I'll never be able to have a girls' night out. I won't have any energy left to have sex with your father because I've expended it all on child rearing or maybe child rearing and my job." [00:46:08]
The whole process of raising your kids will go smoother if you hang on to you and your life, whether you're married, whether you're single, whether you're divorced, whatever it might be, to keep some energy in reserve and time in reserve for you. So that when your child does have their struggles, you won't personalize it so much and think, "I've done something wrong." You'll be able to have some objectivity to take a step back from it and realize, "Okay, my kid is having some struggles right now. I'm going to keep an eye on it. I'm going to support them. I'm going to get some other people if we need some other people. But I'm going to make sure I keep taking care of me."
Because that child will launch, that child will go... whether they go to trade school, whether they start a job, whether they go to college, they will eventually launch. [00:47:05] And we want you, mom and dad, to be in as good a shape as possible so your child will launch the best if they know you're going to be okay. Because mom has an interesting life. She's going to be okay.
Laura Dugger: That is so encouraging. It makes me wonder if you've seen any other specific patterns for families who seem to be navigating these years well.
Dr. Jennifer Degler: Definitely, if you're married, to keep investing in your marriage. That is such a great foundation for your child. I see it as if you think about a diving board, and your child is going to hit that diving board and launch into adulthood. So we want that diving board to be as resilient and springy as possible so that when they launch, they launch well. They can launch on out of our basement. We don't want them living in our basement playing video games when they're 35 years old. [00:48:06] So thinking about, okay, what can I do to make this springboard as resilient as possible?
Well, my marriage needs to be strong. I personally need to have an interesting life. They see that I have friends so that they're not worried, gosh, is Mom going to be okay when I go off to college because she doesn't really have any friends? Or Mom and Dad's marriage is not going to be okay if I'm not there to be the buffer between the two of them.
So the patterns that I see, some of them are that mom and dad continue to make themselves... They have an interesting relationship. They do things without the kids at times where they just invest in their relationship, where they have hobbies, they have their own friends that they do things with.
And that as well, the family times that they have together, that they continue to do those. For instance, like what you did with your kids when they were little? [00:49:07] Maybe they love to go to Build-A-Bear or something like that, that flexes. So now they like coffee. So now we have coffee dates at Starbucks. And now what they're liking to do is this. And that you flex. Again, you're this springy, resilient springboard and they see that you can adapt and that thy learn that from you.
Because what we want to do is create these resilient adults who can bounce back when hard times happen and that have a strong inner core. So the best thing you can do for your kids is make sure you are okay. That's why we keep working on ourselves, mind, body, and soul.
Laura Dugger: Wow. Are there any other helpful questions we can ask our daughters? Or do you have any other specific information or encouragement that you want to make sure to share that we haven't yet discussed?[00:50:11]
Dr. Jennifer Degler: Well, I can tell you something fun that I did with my daughter in her period that she loves. This idea did not originate with me. I got this off The Cosby Show. I saw where the mother on The Cosby Show when her daughters would start their periods, she called it Now You're a Woman Day. As they began to learn, you know, a couple of years before their period even started, but they're learning that this is going to start.
And this is what I told my daughter. I said, "Okay, when you start your period, we're going to have a special day. And it's called Now You're a Woman Day. And if you're in school, I'm going to take you out of school that day. And we're going to have so much fun that day. We're going to do things that women do."
If you start your period in the summer, you know, I won't be able to take you out of school, but we'll still, and it'll be a surprise to you. Now, it probably won't be on the day you start your period, because I've got to do some planning. But just so you know, that's something you can really look forward to." [00:51:11]
My daughter loved that, because it was like... because starting your period, it sounds really... It's scary. You know, this idea, all of a sudden this blood's going to come out of me. So letting her know, you know, blood's not going to gush out of you. That's not what it's going to be like. But we're also going to have this fun Now You're a Woman Day.
So what I did with Josie, she started her period in the summer, so I couldn't take her out of school. But I had this special thing planned. Let's see. We went to a tea room here in town and we had like tea with the little trays of pastries. And then in downtown Lexington, we have horse-drawn carriages. And I took her on a horse-drawn carriage ride. And oh, she just loved it. And I was like, this is what women do, and now you're a woman. It was just a really sweet time. She still talks about that as something that she wants to do with her daughter that is special. [00:52:10]
So this isn't all so heavy, but is a fun thing as well. And so you're celebrating because this is a normal, healthy thing to have happen to your daughter.
Laura Dugger: I love that so much. It's so fun and such a creative way to celebrate that rite of passage. So thank you for that idea.
Dr. Jennifer, you just have so much more to offer. So where can we go to learn more from you after today's conversation?
Dr. Jennifer Degler: You can go to JenniferDegler.com. Typical spelling of Jennifer, and then D-E-G-L-E-R, JenniferDegler.com. That's also the home of CWIVES.com. Both of those will take you to the same website.
If there are wives that want to maybe sign up for the Dare of the Month or learn more about how to make their sex life sizzle, there are resources there to help people have emotional health, spiritual health, relationship health. [00:53:10] We look to just help people be holistically mind, body, and soul whole people as believers, really reflecting the full image of who Jesus Christ is.
Laura Dugger: Wonderful. I will make sure we get links to all of those places in the show notes for today's episode. You may remember that we're called The Savvy Sauce because savvy is synonymous with practical knowledge. And so as my final question for you today, what is your Savvy Sauce?
Dr. Jennifer Degler: So I will make this savvy sauce have to do with raising a girl. My savvy sauce is for you as a mom raising a girl to really work on loving yourself and strengthening yourself and to keep pouring into yourself.
More is caught than taught. And what your daughter sees you do, that she sees that you go and buy yourself some fun clothes every now and again. That she sees that you move your body. [00:54:21] That she sees and hears you talk positively about yourself. That she sees you do interesting things for yourself. That she sees you be assertive and speak what you need and ask for what you need. That she hears you talk about your faith journey.
That is ultimately what is going to really help equip your girl to navigate through these tween and teen rough waters at times. So the savvy sauce is you keep working on you and then your girl will so benefit from that.
Laura Dugger: Well, Dr. Degler, you must do that well because you are so vibrant and knowledgeable, kind, and approachable and just truly such a delight to spend time with. So thank you for encouraging us how to navigate these years with grace and wisdom. And thank you for being my returning guest.
Dr. Jennifer Degler: You're so welcome. This was really fun. [00:55:22]
Laura Dugger: One more thing before you go. Have you heard the term "gospel" before? It simply means good news. And I want to share the best news with you. But it starts with the bad news. Every single one of us were born sinners, but Christ desires to rescue us from our sin, which is something we cannot do for ourselves.
This means there is absolutely no chance we can make it to heaven on our own. So, for you and for me, it means we deserve death and we can never pay back the sacrifice we owe to be saved. We need a Savior.
But God loved us so much, He made a way for His only Son to willingly die in our place as the perfect substitute. This gives us hope of life forever in right relationship with Him. That is good news.
Jesus lived the perfect life we could never live and died in our place for our sin. [00:56:22] This was God's plan to make a way to reconcile with us so that God can look at us and see Jesus. We can be covered and justified through the work Jesus finished if we choose to receive what He has done for us.
Romans 10:9 says that if you confess with your mouth Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved.
So would you pray with me now? Heavenly Father, thank You for sending Jesus to take our place. I pray someone today right now is touched and chooses to turn their life over to You. Will You clearly guide them and help them take their next step in faith to declare You as Lord of their life? We trust You to work and change lives now for eternity. In Jesus' name we pray. Amen.
If you prayed that prayer, you are declaring Him for me, so me for Him. You get the opportunity to live your life for Him. [00:57:21]
And at this podcast, we're called The Savvy Sauce for a reason. We want to give you practical tools to implement the knowledge you have learned. So you ready to get started?
First, tell someone. Say it out loud. Get a Bible. The first day I made this decision, my parents took me to Barnes & Noble and let me choose my own Bible. I selected the Quest NIV Bible, and I love it. You can start by reading the Book of John.
Also, get connected locally, which just means tell someone who's a part of a church in your community that you made a decision to follow Christ. I'm assuming they will be thrilled to talk with you about further steps, such as going to church and getting connected to other believers to encourage you.
We want to celebrate with you too, so feel free to leave a comment for us here if you did make a decision to follow Christ. We also have show notes included where you can read Scripture that describes this process.
Finally, be encouraged. Luke 15:10 says, "In the same way, I tell you, there is rejoicing in the presence of the angels of God over one sinner who repents." [00:58:25] The heavens are praising with you for your decision today.
If you've already received this good news, I pray that you have someone else to share it with today. You are loved and I look forward to meeting you here next time.
Welcome to The Savvy Sauce
Practical chats for intentional living
A faith-based podcast and resources to help you grow closer to Jesus and others. Expect encouragement, surprises, and hope here. Each episode offers lively interviews with fascinating guests such as therapists, authors, non-profit founders, and business leaders.
They share their best practices and savvy tips we can replicate to make our daily life and relationships more enjoyable!
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