Ephesians 4:29 (NIV) “Do not let any unwholesome talk come out of your mouths, but only what is helpful for building others up according to their needs, that it may benefit those who listen.”

**Transcription Below**

Kathleen Edelman has one goal in life: to help people learn to speak kindly to one another. She is certified in Biblical Studies and has a master’s in Christian Counseling Psychology. Kathleen has spent more than 25 years coaching clients in the art of communication. She is married with two grown children and has a surprising passion for martial arts and pickup trucks.

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I Said This You Heard That by Kathleen Edelman

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Gospel Scripture: (all NIV)

Romans 3:23 “for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,”

Romans 3:24 “and are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus.”

Romans 3:25 (a) “God presented him as a sacrifice of atonement, through faith in his blood.”

Hebrews 9:22 (b) “without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness.”

Romans 5:8 “But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us.”

Romans 5:11 “Not only is this so, but we also rejoice in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have now received reconciliation.”

John 3:16 “For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.”

Romans 10:9 “That if you confess with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.”

Luke 15:10 says “In the same way, I tell you, there is rejoicing in the presence of the angels of God over one sinner who repents.”

Romans 8:1 “Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus”

Ephesians 1:13–14 “And you also were included in Christ when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation. Having believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit, who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God’s possession- to the praise of his glory.”

Ephesians 1:15–23 “For this reason, ever since I heard about your faith in the Lord Jesus and your love for all the saints, I have not stopped giving thanks for you, remembering you in my prayers. I keep asking that the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the glorious Father, may give you the spirit of wisdom and revelation, so that you may know him better. I pray also that the eyes of your heart may be enlightened in order that you may know the hope to which he has called you, the riches of his glorious inheritance in the saints, and his incomparably great power for us who believe. That power is like the working of his mighty strength, which he exerted in Christ when he raised him from the dead and seated him at his right hand in the heavenly realms, far above all rule and authority, power and dominion, and every title that can be given, not only in the present age but also in the one to come. And God placed all things under his feet and appointed him to be head over everything for the church, which is his body, the fullness of him who fills everything in every way.”

Ephesians 2:8–10 “For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith – and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God – not by works, so that no one can boast. For we are God‘s workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do.“

Ephesians 2:13 “But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far away have been brought near through the blood of Christ.“

Philippians 1:6 “being confident of this, that he who began a good work in you will carry it on to completion until the day of Christ Jesus.”

**Transcription**

[00:00:00] <music>

Laura Dugger: Welcome to The Savvy Sauce, where we have practical chats for intentional living. I'm your host Laura Dugger, and I'm so glad you're here.

[00:00:17] <music>

Laura Dugger: Are you looking for the latest styles and greatest fashion trends for you and your little ones? The Joyful Boutique is a locally owned clothing boutique located in Eureka, Illinois, but they ship items all over the world. They stock the latest fashionable boutique clothing for children and women ranging in sizes from 2T to 3XL. Check them out today at thejoyfulboutique.com and enter Savvy for a special discount.

If you're interested in understanding your spouse, children, coworkers, and even yourself better, this is the episode for you. I'm thrilled to host Kathleen Edelman as my guest today. Kathleen has studied temperaments extensively, and she's coached clients in the art of communication for over 25 years.

Today we're going to cover the simple framework of temperaments, and she's going to share a multitude of stories and examples to help you learn how to live in your own strengths and to use kind words to draw out the best in others.

Here's our chat.

Welcome to The Savvy Sauce, Kathleen. [00:01:28]

Kathleen Edelman: Thank you for having me.

Laura Dugger: I would love to have you just start us off by telling us a little bit more about yourself and the work that you do.

Kathleen Edelman: Well, I am very motivated by words. So what I do is I pair up communication and the understanding of temperaments, all biblically based. So I've done this for several decades where I've tried to help people find their authentic self and understand that communication can be a gift, not just to others, but to themselves, and that it's very important to foundationally know how God wired you so that we can speak kindly to each other.

Laura Dugger: I love that. I think you often point out a specific verse that's been very meaningful. Do you mind sharing that with us?

Kathleen Edelman: I never mind sharing this verse because it's my family's verse. It is a verse that was brought to me when I was a child, and everything I do in my ministry and in my coaching is based off Ephesians 4:29. [00:02:30]

That verse says, "Do not let any unwholesome words come out of your mouth. Only what builds others up according to their needs and benefit all who listen." I truly believe whether you're a believer or not, if you just used that verse even as a bullet point outline, it would change every conversation.

Laura Dugger: I think that's very wise. Just in case this topic of temperaments is brand new to someone listening, will you explain the four temperaments framework?

Kathleen Edelman: Oh, absolutely. What I find a lot, Laura, is that people get temperament and personality confused. So that question is actually great because there's a lot of personality tests and assessments, and they're online. And what they do is they take just a snapshot of time.

Personality is the what. Temperament is the why. So if we were to look at it, temperament is the why behind feelings, the why behind emotions, because that's what personality is. It's feelings and emotions. So temperament was studied way back at the time of Hippocrates. In about 60 A.D., a physician named Galen put names to them. [00:03:45]

There's four. There's sanguine, choleric, melancholy, and phlegmatic. Each one they thought was represented by fluid or humor in the body, but they've since figured out that's not what it is. But it is how you naturally, innately respond to different situations in your life. So those are the four temperaments, and that is the why behind personality.

Laura Dugger: I love that in your work, you've changed those confusing names and titles and given them colors, which we'll use the rest of the time to identify them. So do you mind pairing those up for us?

Kathleen Edelman: Oh, absolutely not. I may go in between. So please, Laura, correct me, because I've said the Greek names forever. So sanguine is yellow. The choleric is red. The melancholy or melancholic is blue. And the phlegmatic is green. Because those Greek words absolutely can be a mouthful, especially when you're talking to children.

Laura Dugger: Definitely. [00:04:45] You do work with children in addition to adults and businesses. Is that right?

Kathleen Edelman: Absolutely. In fact, I've done this longer than my children have been alive. So I have actually seen the benefits of individuals knowing their temperaments from a very, very early age. So what happens even in my office, Laura, is that the children come in and they get temperaments very quickly. They get it. They can identify.

I look at it as each temperament has their own language. Children are very quick to learn another temperament's language. Adults can be a little more challenging because they have a lot more pushback, and they come in with a lot more baggage. I actually love working with children.

Laura Dugger: That's incredible. I'm sure a lot of parents listening will glean some wisdom from you. So could you break down each of those colors and just give us an overview of what that temperament looks like?

Kathleen Edelman: Oh, absolutely. The yellow is somebody whose basic desire is fun. What you'll find as I go through these temperaments is each temperament has something that's very unique to that temperament that no other temperament shares. [00:05:55]

So what I love about the sanguine, the yellow temperament, is that what is unique to them is their ability to see the best in people first. They see the best in people and the best in circumstances first. This is a person that's just full of life, and they live in the moment, and they just bring life into the room. When we start talking about strengths and weaknesses, though, there's going to be a little bit of a balance with that life that they do bring into the room.

The choleric, that's the red, what's unique to them... this is a person that's basic desire is power or control. This is a person that is a visionary. They can throw a big net and see a goal or a vision as clear as clear can be. This is a dynamic leader that can delegate well, that just excels in emergencies. Again, their ability to see a vision or a goal is very clear.

The blue melancholy, this is a person that's basic desire is perfection or order. [00:06:57] This person's unique characteristic is they can anticipate obstacles. Where a red sees a goal from A to B, the blue can see every obstacle between A and B. And it's because that blue temperament really, even though they're analytical and they're logical, but at the same time they're artistic and creative and musical. So they're able to see things in a dimensional way. So that is very unique to the blue.

The green is our calm and harmonious green. What is their basic desire is peace and harmony. And what is unique to the green is their ability to be calm in the midst of chaos. This is just a very kind soul that can listen well and is a great shepherd or leader of people. I think this is very interesting that they can... in an emergency, they're the ones that are going to be saying, Hey, it's going to be all right. You're going to be fine.

Laura Dugger: I love that. My husband's a green.

Kathleen Edelman: Mine too.

Laura Dugger: Oh, nice. I like all the colors, but I definitely appreciate the greens.

Kathleen Edelman: I agree. [00:08:07]

Laura Dugger: As people are listening, I'm sure they're going to want to start to try and identify their own color. So, first of all, will this manifest itself differently when we're in seasons of health versus seasons of crisis and stress?

Kathleen Edelman: Absolutely. Because you are innately wired for your temperament. Again, personality and temperament are different. Everybody asks me, you know, as you mature and you get older, does your temperament change? That answer is no.

When you really can identify your own temperament is when you are in crisis or when you are alone. Because when you're in crisis or you're alone, your true temperament will surface. So you can try to be a different temperament or maybe somebody's telling you to be a different temperament while you're at work or at a mom's group or something. But when you get home and you're alone or you're in crisis, we really have to pay attention to what we're naturally thinking. How would we naturally, truly, authentically, organically respond to different things? And that's your true temperament. [00:09:15]

Laura Dugger: Oh, that's helpful. I'm even thinking there are so many moms listening. I'm curious, and this is a personal one.

Kathleen Edelman: Sure.

Laura Dugger: This is something that's confused me because I've always thought I was yellow-green. But there's so many tasks in motherhood that I feel like I've had to adapt and become more okay with doing the tasks instead of just focusing on the people. So what would you say to somebody trying to figure that out?

Kathleen Edelman: First, I love, love, love young moms. And I love parenting because, again, I just see the benefits day in and day out of understanding this, understanding yourself, like you just asked that question, and then being able to pour into your children's love tank and raise them up in the way they should go, right? Not the way we want them to go.

The yellow-green temperaments are both people oriented. What I would love to stress in all this as you're learning is you were chose to be your children's mom specifically. [00:10:17] So you have every skill and every talent needed to be the best mom for those children. So we really have to believe in our wiring.

Even though you're people oriented, you have the skills and the strengths to do what's necessary, even in a task mode, to be the best parent for your children. You do not have to become a different temperament to tackle those tasks. You can use your gifts to learn a skill, but it's still going to be within your temperament.

Laura Dugger: You're such a natural encourager, Kathleen.

Kathleen Edelman: Well, I believe that I've seen it, Laura, so many times that the aha moments that go off first with the acceptance of how you're wired, and then the awareness of what that means in your behavior and in your words. And then when you start to apply it, it becomes authentic. I would never want the temperaments to be something anybody does. I want it very much to become who you are.

Laura Dugger: And I think that will provide an option for freedom for everyone listening, because we would love for them to not only identify their own temperament, but also be able to recognize other people's temperaments, hopefully by the end of our chat.

Kathleen Edelman: Yeah. [00:11:32]

Laura Dugger: So what is the best way for everyone to discover their true color or temperament?

Kathleen Edelman: Well, of course, the best way is to do the assessment. I Said This, You Heard That book study, because the assessment is written in such a way that if you're really wanting to find out how foundationally you're wired, you will find that out.

For some reason, if you didn't have access to that assessment, if we will just listen to understand people, even yourself, if you listen to the words that you use, and you watch the behavior, and again, what core motivates you, you'll start to see like, okay, I can see that I use planning and strategy a lot. You know, I really get overwhelmed or frustrated. Those are all blue words.

And see, we speak out of our own temperament and we hear in our own temperament. And that's why we have to be very careful that just like you, you're a yellow, and I'm a blue. I have to be able to paradigm shift and listen to you in your temperament, so that I can speak your language, so that you know, I understand you, and I can love you better. [00:12:48]

If I continuously speak out of my own temperament, then there's going to be a gray area between us of misunderstanding, not necessarily intentional, but it's only because we're not paradigm-shifting. We're not shifting to speak out of the other person's temperament so they can hear us better. So listening to your words, listening to what motivates you, but honestly, the easiest way is to do the assessment.

Laura Dugger: I would second that your workbook has been incredible.

Kathleen Edelman: Thank you.

Laura Dugger: It's called I Said This, You Heard That. We can definitely link to that in our show notes.

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Laura Dugger: Back to these colors, do you mind just kind of covering both the strengths and the weaknesses of each? [00:15:01]

Kathleen Edelman: Well, what I can do is I can give you an overview of them because, again, in the book, I've put an extensive list. There's probably 40 strengths and 40 weaknesses for each temperament in the book.

But just to get an idea so your listeners get a feel of each temperament, again, back to that yellow, the yellow is an extrovert. It does not mean they like to be around a lot of people. It means that their thoughts and emotions go outward.

This person has no filter, so they speak out. They are great storytellers. They are curious. They are creative. They are energetic and inspiring. They live in the moment. Like I said, they really see the best in people first. Those are the strengths that make them magnetic.

What happens, though, is in order to really understand our strengths, we have to be aware of our weaknesses. We know it's light in a room because we know dark. We know loud because we know quiet. So in order to really understand a strength is a strength is to know that, yes, I'm a good storyteller, but I can also be a compulsive talker. [00:16:07]

So the yellow can be a compulsive talker. They can elaborate and exaggerate. They interrupt. They can be obnoxious. They can be scatterbrained. And so you want to know that so that you can say, Oh, you know, I have a tendency to be a compulsive talker, but I'm really a good storyteller. So what we're trying to do is stay in the strengths of the temperament that you are.

For the red, they are a dynamic leader. They're born to lead in tasks. Like I said, they excel in emergencies. They delegate well. They're quick decision makers. They're confident in their thoughts and in their leadership. They're very driven. Also, they're very good at setting goals.

But they can be impatient, intolerant. In fact, most reds that are in their weakness talk with a tone that the other temperaments are aware of that a lot of reds aren't even aware of. That bossiness almost can be kind of like being a bully. Again, knowing those help them understand their strengths. [00:17:09]

Laura Dugger: I think it was in your app that you made this observation, that a lot of times reds don't view their weaknesses as weaknesses. Is that right?

Kathleen Edelman: That is absolutely correct. A lot of reds that come in my office, and I have a very big heart for reds, and I'll tell you why, they come in my office, and they either don't want to be red, and I'll explain that in a minute, or they'll look at their weaknesses, and they'll say, I don't see any weaknesses here. How can arguing be a weakness?

So they can spin everything as it's kind of a strength. Because the red's motto is "my way is the right way. I'm right." And usually they are right. These are very smart people. I never want to bring the power bar of a red down. I only want to soften their edges. You can do that by having them realize that, yes, they are right, but there may be another right. Their answer is yes, but it may not be the best yes. [00:18:12]

Where my heart gets heavy with the reds is that all the other temperaments are usually described in their strengths. The reds are not. The reds are usually described in their weaknesses. So I'm trying to change that because reds bring a lot to the table.

It's just that their strengths and weaknesses, if you were to put a descriptive word over all of them, the yellows are loud strengths, loud weaknesses, the reds are powerful strengths, powerful weaknesses. The blues are deep strengths, deep weaknesses, and the greens are peaceful strengths, peaceful weaknesses.

So right there, even in that description, this is a powerful person. So the visual change from a choleric going from weakness to strengths is the most obvious because it is just right out there. The reds are also an extrovert. Again, thoughts and emotions going outward, but they're an extrovert that is task-oriented.

Laura Dugger: That is so fascinating. And I'm thinking of reds in my life. You're right. I really appreciate them. And they make a lot of good things happen. [00:19:23]

Kathleen Edelman: They absolutely do. This is a person that really they can look at any situation and see a goal or have a vision of how it can be better and how it can be accomplished, usually very efficiently.

Laura Dugger: Absolutely. Let's continue on with the blues.

Kathleen Edelman: Sure. The blues are analytical, logical. They're compassionate and empathetic. This is a person that's very thoughtful. But they can also be critical, judgmental. They can have false humility and remember the negatives. This is a person that can really try to control or get caught up in their moods.

So what we really want to inspire with the blues is what I see a lot of is we really want to make sure we're pouring into the creative, artistic, musical side of the blues. Because a lot of times they're private and their reserved demeanor can make them unapproachable or seem unapproachable when really their biggest desire is just to be included. [00:20:26]

The greens are kind. They are innately kind. They are great listeners. They are kind to the point of being a fabulous leader of people. This is a person that genuinely cares about other people. They're very harmonious. They're the ones that can keep the peace and can bring the contentment of the group around. They're adaptable. They're consistent of character. There's a calmness that comes with them when they walk into the room.

They do not like conflict. They do not like confrontation. And they have no sense of urgency. So what everybody else sees as urgent or that might get done, you're just not going to get that sense of urgency from the green. They just do not have that urgent streak in their body, which can cause a lot of problems.

Laura Dugger: That's really helpful to get such an overview of each of them. Even in your workbook, you talk about innate needs of each of the colors. So what are those needs of each of the colors and what happens when those needs aren't being met? [00:21:38]

Kathleen Edelman: And that's why we start, Laura, with the strengths and weaknesses, because if you look at your weaknesses and you see what your first go-to or what you're struggling with, then when you talk about the innate needs, they make more sense of what you're trying to fill. What are you trying to fill with excessive compulsive talking or being impatient or moods or being non-confrontational?

Each temperament has innate needs, and the innate needs, this is such the game changer because this is what separates temperament from personality.

The yellow's innate needs are attention, approval, acceptance, and affection. The collared or the reds are loyalty, sense of control, appreciation, and credit for work.

The blue is safety, sensitivity, support, and space and silence.

The greens are harmony, lack of stress, feeling of worth, and respect. [00:22:43]

These things you have been trying to fill since you were a child. This is like food and water. So when you're talking about strengths and weaknesses and when you're talking about understanding communication, everything that you do, these are your core motivators. This is why you do what you do.

Now, what happens is, I call it the love tank. This is the easiest way to do it. If your innate needs or your love tank is filled with your strengths, then you're in your calling and purpose. Then you have something to give because you cannot give what you don't have.

So when you understand yourself authentically and you're organically filling these needs because you understand them and you understand the definition, then you have something to give another person. If you're trying to fill these needs with your weaknesses, it's like your love tank has a crack in it. It's going to seep out and it's going to create what I call a manipulate spy. [00:23:44]

If you are, for example, compulsively talking and you're being obnoxious and you're trying to get approval and acceptance as a yellow filled with these weaknesses, pretty soon that's not going to work anymore. And then you're going to try to start charming people and have flattery conversations with people. That's your manipulate spy.

For the red, the manipulate spy is tone and volume. If they are saying to their kids, get in the car, get in the car, and the kids aren't getting in the car and they become impatient and intolerant, what's going to happen is their voice is going to go up in volume and their tone is going to get more commanding. And it's only because instead of using their strength, they're using their weaknesses. For the blue, it's moods and silence. For the greens, it's procrastination and withdrawal.

So, again, it's standing back and understanding these innate needs, not just knowing the words, but you want to be able to put definitions with them. See, that's the game changer.

For example, Laura, you're yellow, right?

Laura Dugger: Right.

Kathleen Edelman: So one of your innate needs is attention. You want to know between you and God, what does attention mean to you? Like, how are you going to love yourself better? How are you going to give yourself attention? How are you going to articulate that to your husband? How am I going to help fill that as your friend? If you don't know it, then how am I going to know it, right? [00:25:13]

Laura Dugger: Definitely. And so you encourage everybody to answer these questions for themselves to define it.

Kathleen Edelman: Oh, absolutely. I have to be able to know what safety means to me and sensitivity means to me before I can expect my husband to know how to talk to me or my children or you as a friend. But what it really comes down to is I have to be able to do that for myself. I have to get to a point where I captivate my thoughts and make them honorable, and I'm speaking positive and encouraging and loving self-talk to me. Just like Ephesians 4:29. It says, "Do not let," that means it's a choice, "any unwholesome words."

That first starts with my self-talk. Am I building myself up according to my needs so that I have something to give my husband, you know, so that I have something to give my children? And then once I know that, then I can talk to my husband and say, hey, this is what safety means to me. [00:26:13] And then that allows him some direction to be able to see through my blue lens from his green lens and choose to love me better.

Laura Dugger: I would love to have a few examples as well. If you've done this work, what are some ways that you personally get that space or security or safety that you need?

Kathleen Edelman: Well, let me talk about when I was a young mom and I was doing this when my children were in school. One of my needs is space and silence because I'm an introvert. The blues are introverts, which mean, again, not that I don't like to be around people. It means that my thoughts and emotions go inward.

So I'm a processor. I'm an introvert that's task-oriented, where the phlegmatic is an introvert that's people-oriented, which we can talk about that, too. So the space and silence for me meant that when I came home, I asked my kids to wait on their questions. I'm going to go into my office for five minutes. It was never a long time.

I went into my office and I closed the door and I had space and silence, and I was able to process the day for a few minutes and just get my thoughts organized. [00:27:26] And when I came out of my office, I was a better mom because I was able to just get to a place where now I could love on my kids without feeling overwhelmed, you know, or that I had too many plates spinning. You know, we have to be able to look at that and do for ourselves so that we can be better parents and better wives and better friends.

Laura Dugger: Those stories are always helpful if we could just go around to the colors because you've coached so many people of different colors. So for a green, what would that respect or did you say desire for peace or harmony?

Kathleen Edelman: Yes, they have harmony, lack of stress, feeling of worth and respect. Again, what I did for the people that are going to do the study is I put in their examples of the ones I've heard over 30 years that I've heard the most of from each temperament.

For example, feeling of worth for my husband, who happens to be green, his definition was that when there was a big decision to be made that he was given the time to think it through. [00:28:30] And before a decision was made for anything that he would be asked his opinion or his idea of it. Because greens have great opinions and great ideas. They're just very quiet people and they don't always advocate for themselves.

So to show him respect and feeling of worth, I always would ask, hey, what's your input? What are your ideas on this? It's really valuable to me to know what you're thinking.

Laura Dugger: That's a great example. I think my husband would definitely relate to that as well.

I just want to say thank you to someone who left this personal review and five-star rating and review on iTunes. From Ashley Ditto, she writes, "Today I found this because of Rach Kincaid and I'm so thankful I did. What an amazing podcast. So much wisdom in the episodes." Thanks so much for taking the time to leave that review.

And what about the yellows? What story can you think of?

Kathleen Edelman: The yellows... this would be my daughter. So what's very interesting is when you read the definitions of what attention or affection mean to a yellow. But I'll use attention right now because attention most of the time yellows are like, Oh, they want to be center stage or they just want to be the life of the party. [00:29:44] That's not necessarily the truth.

What attention means to my daughter is that when she does have a story to tell me, is that I stop what I'm doing and I make eye contact with her. That shows her that I'm engaged and I am giving her the attention and priority that she's craving. Can you relate to that being a yellow?

Laura Dugger: Very much relate to that and her example more so than being center stage. So that's interesting.

Kathleen Edelman: Yeah. And see, those descriptive words are what fall under personality. And that's what I try to get people to understand when they're learning the temperaments is that we're not about descriptive words. We're not about "Oh, Laura's funny. Oh, she's yellow. You know, and Joe, oh, he's a good leader, he's red." That's not what temperaments is. All the temperaments can be funny. All the temperaments can be good leaders. It's really defining these innate needs.

Laura Dugger: Let's finish with the reds then as well. What stories or illustrations do you have? [00:30:46]

Kathleen Edelman: The biggest one for reds by far in the 30 years I've done this, most of the time they'll talk about loyalty. I just had another young lady who's a very red talk about how she was so moved with her team at work, because there was a discrepancy. And she found out that every single person on her team relayed back to their boss's boss, that what this young lady had done was the exact right thing and that she was doing it for the group.

So what they basically were filling for this girl was loyalty. Like they had her back. They showed her that our word is our word. You know, we said we would support you and we're doing it. So that's big for a red.

Laura Dugger: I just think that it's exciting to come up with ways to genuinely build up others around us, especially in a way that they can most resonate with. So what words or phrases do each of the temperaments need to hear? [00:31:50]

Kathleen Edelman: Well, again, when you start learning the language of each temperament, where I ask everybody to start kind of like a cheat sheet would be to use words right off those charts of like the innate needs and the strengths and weaknesses.

So for a yellow, you want to let them know that, hey, you approve of what they're doing. They don't have to change a bit. I would love to give you my focus and attention in your story. You can use the words right off the charts that I've created.

For the reds, it can look like, Hey, I'm loyal to you. I got your back. I appreciate how much work you've put into this. That was a lot of physical work. I don't think anyone else could have done it. See, again, I just used words right off the innate needs chart.

Same for the blue. Hey, I'm a safe place to be. I'm very sensitive to what you're saying, and I want to make sure I understand it so I can give you the support that you need. Just easily the words right off the chart.

Then for the greens, it could be something like, I respect your decision. You are such a value to this team. If you weren't here, it wouldn't have went the way it went. So we really appreciate your input. It really went smoothly. [00:33:03]

So even in those four scenarios I just did, I used three or four of the innate needs right off the board. But I did not change who I was, Laura. That's the key thing, is I'm not becoming a different person. I'm just choosing to love those people better with the words that I'm choosing to give life to.

Laura Dugger: That is very life-giving to hear it in your own preferred language.

Kathleen Edelman: Exactly. I like that preferred language. I like that.

Laura Dugger: Then you've also mentioned that beyond our dominant color, we have a secondary color. So how do we identify that secondary temperament?

Kathleen Edelman: It will come up on the assessment. As you start really listening to yourself and people, you'll start seeing the difference in the temperaments. Like, I'm a blue-green. If I was sitting by a blue-red, it would only take a short amount of time for you to start seeing the differences between that person and me.

Again, most likely it would be in the words that we use. [00:34:06] Where I might say, "I don't know, I think we should plan this lunch. But whatever restaurant you want to go to, I'm fine with." Where the blue might say, "Oh, I'm good planning this lunch, but I think we should go to XYZ restaurant." Do you see the difference?

Laura Dugger: Yes. The blue-green first and then blue-red.

Kathleen Edelman: Exactly. So again, if we would just listen to understand instead of listen to respond, you would get so much more information.

Laura Dugger: Do you think that even this workbook is a tool for people to become better listeners?

Kathleen Edelman: I would hope so. I mean, that's really one of my goals because you have two ears and one mouth. Remember that when you were little? We have to even listen to what we're saying to ourself. Because if you're putting Ephesians 4:29, you have to think about that. Are you saying to yourself life words or are you saying to yourself death words? Are you really lifting yourself up according to your needs or are you really undermining yourself?

One thing I want to make clear, the temperaments, there's two extrovert, there are two introvert, there's two task and there's two people. [00:35:12] When you do the assessment, you are a dominant and a secondary. If you were to look at the chart in the book, the yellow and the red are on the top from left to right, and the bottom from left to right would be the green and the blue. The top is extrovert, the bottom is introvert, the left are people-oriented, the right are task-oriented. When you do the assessment, you are either horizontal or vertical. You are usually never diagonal.

Laura Dugger: With your secondary, do you ever see people that come in with a clear dominant, but then the colors right next to them are pretty equal?

Kathleen Edelman: I do. If that happens, usually if you will concentrate on your dominant, you'll start to see a bigger spread between the secondary and the third temperament that's come up. If you don't see that, you might want to... and this is like 2.0. The third temperament may be something called masking, which means that there was trauma or abuse or grief. 85% of what I see, Laura, though, is caused by some kind of parenting. [00:36:22] That's causing you to not be your authentic self.

We would want to kind of look at that and see why are we reaching over into that temperament instead of really being organic in the ones that we were wired for. Again, not necessarily intentional, but just that you may have two overlapping blue parents with a yellow child. All that child's hearing is, stop wiggling, you're too loud, quit moving, or you're embarrassing me.

As those words come out, for a visual, they're kind of dulling the sparkle of that yellow child. Again, it's just that the blue parents aren't understanding the language of the yellow child. That's why, especially in parenting, this is so incredibly important.

Laura Dugger: And I just want to make sure that I clarify to understand this correctly. So you said that's the third temperament. So that would be if somebody, let's use that example, that they have two blue parents, they're yellow, so how would their test results present? [00:37:25]

Kathleen Edelman: It may look like they're very dominant yellow. They come in and they have a green secondary, but right on the tails of that green secondary is a very strong blue. We would have to go, hmm, why is that there? What is causing that to be there? Because it's really not innate to a yellow to have a high blue like that.

Laura Dugger: Okay, that makes so much sense. What if it's somebody that is a yellow and a split between green and red?

Kathleen Edelman: That's somewhere where we would really just have to find out... focusing on the dominant, you would see the true secondary start to surface. And which one starts to get wobbly. Or again, a lot of times, Laura, this is a miscommunication in descriptive words. So people will circle certain words in the assessment. They're not necessarily thinking about themselves on their very best day. They might be thinking of themselves situationally, instead of just their core motivator and they're circling something that may be a confusing descriptive word between a red and a green. [00:38:37]

What I mean by that is I have people come in my office and they're like, Oh, my son's a red. He's angry and he really wants his way all the time. Then I meet the child and they're really very green. Greens are the most stubborn and by far the most strong-willed on the board. But see, we've been told and we're getting mixed up in the personality stuff that we're assigning that person to a red just because of the strong will and the stubbornness. See, this is why knowing these temperaments to the core, then you can just start having discernment about really what is which temperament.

Greens really only do things they're interested in or they're absolutely responsible for. Everything else, they really have no sense of urgency about.

Laura Dugger: Sometimes are greens... do they come across as more direct than reds if it is their stubborn streak?

Kathleen Edelman: Oh, absolutely. If they're interested in it, they can be very stubborn. And they'll know everything about it and they can even come across as kind of a know-it-all. And especially where you also see the stubbornness is if it's something they're not interested in and you are pushing them. [00:39:48]

A green can take pushing for a very long time. But when they're pushed into a corner, they're going to do one of two things. They're going to fight or they're going to flee. And usually they'll flee. They'll flee the room. They'll flee the team. They'll flee the marriage. They'll flee the work.

But if they decide to fight, Laura, they can make a choleric look like a kitten because it is so volatile. And a lot of times it looks like it comes out of nowhere, like you're kind, quiet little girl, and all of a sudden she explodes. And you're like, Where did that come from? Well, she's been pushed and pushed and pushed till she can't be pushed anymore.

And it could have been something that happened six months ago. Whereas if she was red, you would know about it immediately. They don't wait six months to tell you.

Laura Dugger: Oh, that is so helpful. All right, friends, after Kathleen and I recorded, we realized that we had way too much information to pack into one episode. So we're going to pause this conversation here and hope that you're going to join us again tomorrow.

You don't want to miss part two, because that's where Kathleen is going to teach us how to apply this knowledge on temperaments to improve our parenting and marriage relationships. We look forward to seeing you back tomorrow. [00:41:04]

One more thing before you go. Have you heard the term "gospel" before? It simply means good news. And I want to share the best news with you. But it starts with the bad news. Every single one of us were born sinners and God is perfect and holy, so He cannot be in the presence of sin. Therefore, we're separated from Him.

This means there's absolutely no chance we can make it to heaven on our own. So for you and for me, it means we deserve death and we can never pay back the sacrifice we owe to be saved. We need a savior. But God loved us so much, He made a way for His only Son to willingly die in our place as the perfect substitute.

This gives us hope of life forever in right relationship with Him. That is good news. Jesus lived the perfect life we could never live and died in our place for our sin. This was God's plan to make a way to reconcile with us so that God can look at us and see Jesus. [00:42:10]

We can be covered and justified through the work Jesus finished if we choose to receive what He has done for us. Romans 10:9 says that if you confess with your mouth Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved.

So would you pray with me now? Heavenly, Father, thank You for sending Jesus to take our place. I pray someone today right now is touched and chooses to turn their life over to You. Will You clearly guide them and help them take their next step in faith to declare You as Lord of their life? We trust You to work and change their lives now for eternity. In Jesus name, we pray, amen.

If you prayed that prayer, you are declaring Him for me, so me for Him, you get the opportunity to live your life for Him.

At this podcast, we are called Savvy for a reason. We want to give you practical tools to implement the knowledge you have learned. So you're ready to get started? [00:43:12]

First, tell someone. Say it out loud. Get a Bible. The first day I made this decision my parents took me to Barnes and Noble to get the Quest NIV Bible and I love it. Start by reading the book of John.

Get connected locally, which basically means just tell someone who is part of the church in your community that you made a decision to follow Christ. I'm assuming they will be thrilled to talk with you about further steps such as going to church and getting connected to other believers to encourage you.

We want to celebrate with you too. So feel free to leave a comment for us if you made a decision for Christ. We also have show notes included where you can read Scripture that describes this process.

Finally, be encouraged. Luke 15:10 says, "In the same way, I tell you, there is rejoicing in the presence of the angels of God over one sinner who repents." The heavens are praising with you for your decision today. [00:44:10]

If you've already received this good news, I pray that you have someone else to share it with today. You are loved and I look forward to meeting you here next time.

Welcome to The Savvy Sauce

Practical chats for intentional living

A faith-based podcast and resources to help you grow closer to Jesus and others. Expect encouragement, surprises, and hope here. Each episode offers lively interviews with fascinating guests such as therapists, authors, non-profit founders, and business leaders.

They share their best practices and savvy tips we can replicate to make our daily life and relationships more enjoyable!