169. Unlocking Meaning and Purpose in Your Life and Overcoming Burnout with Dale Wilsher
"Pay close attention to yourself [concentrate on your personal development] and to your teaching; persevere in these things [hold to them], for as you do this you will ensure salvation both for yourself and for those who hear you." 1 Timothy 4:16 (AMP)
**Transcription Below**
Questions and Topics We Discuss:
What are some questions we can ask ourselves to begin to uncover clues about our ideal career?
What is a sample list of values and how can we connect those with our to-do list to see if we are spending our time doing what matters most?
How does our personality impact the type of career that suits each of us best?
Dale Wilsher is an executive life and career coach, keynote speaker, award-winning author of What’s Your Mom Type? and creator of the digital course, Career Kickstart: 30 Days to Your Ideal Job. She specializes in helping her clients discover their truest work and lead their fullest life by deeply understanding their God-given design and individual mission. Once a SAHM mom to her four inspiring daughters, ages 18-25, she is now and empty-nester enjoying a great new season with her husband, Jeff, the man of her dreams. They make their home in Boulder, Colorado. You can find Dale at www.YourAuthenticPersonality.com.
Dale Wilsher's Previous Episodes on The Savvy Sauce:
Four Personality Types with Dale Wilsher
Patreon 19 Applying Personality Training to Parenting with Dale Wilsher
Career Kickstart: 30 Days to Ideal Job
Free Training: How to To Work that Matters on January 25 at 6pm MST. You can register here.
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Gospel Scripture: (all NIV)
Romans 3:23 “for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,”
Romans 3:24 “and are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus.”
Romans 3:25 (a) “God presented him as a sacrifice of atonement, through faith in his blood.”
Hebrews 9:22 (b) “without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness.”
Romans 5:8 “But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us.”
Romans 5:11 “Not only is this so, but we also rejoice in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have now received reconciliation.”
John 3:16 “For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.”
Romans 10:9 “That if you confess with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.”
Luke 15:10 says “In the same way, I tell you, there is rejoicing in the presence of the angels of God over one sinner who repents.”
Romans 8:1 “Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus”
Ephesians 1:13–14 “And you also were included in Christ when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation. Having believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit, who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God’s possession- to the praise of his glory.”
Ephesians 1:15–23 “For this reason, ever since I heard about your faith in the Lord Jesus and your love for all the saints, I have not stopped giving thanks for you, remembering you in my prayers. I keep asking that the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the glorious Father, may give you the spirit of wisdom and revelation, so that you may know him better. I pray also that the eyes of your heart may be enlightened in order that you may know the hope to which he has called you, the riches of his glorious inheritance in the saints, and his incomparably great power for us who believe. That power is like the working of his mighty strength, which he exerted in Christ when he raised him from the dead and seated him at his right hand in the heavenly realms, far above all rule and authority, power and dominion, and every title that can be given, not only in the present age but also in the one to come. And God placed all things under his feet and appointed him to be head over everything for the church, which is his body, the fullness of him who fills everything in every way.”
Ephesians 2:8–10 “For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith – and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God – not by works, so that no one can boast. For we are God‘s workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do.“
Ephesians 2:13 “But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far away have been brought near through the blood of Christ.“
Philippians 1:6 “being confident of this, that he who began a good work in you will carry it on to completion until the day of Christ Jesus.”
**Transcription**
[00:00:00] <music>
Laura Dugger: Welcome to The Savvy Sauce, where we have practical chats for intentional living. I'm your host Laura Dugger, and I'm so glad you're here.
[00:00:17] <music>
Laura Dugger: Leman Property Management Company has the apartment you will be able to call home, with over 1,700 apartment units available in Central Illinois. Visit them today at LemanProperties.com or connect with them on Facebook.
Dale Wilsher is my returning guest today, and she is a very motivating executive and career coach, speaker, and author. You're going to leave this conversation empowered and equipped to understand the deeper purpose of your own life and then actually live in a way that is congruent with your deepest values and the desires God has placed within you.
Here's our chat.
Welcome back to The Savvy Sauce, Dale.
Dale Wilsher: Thanks, Laura. It's so great to be with you today.
Laura Dugger: Well, I'm going to make sure that we link to your previous episodes in today's show notes. [00:01:17] But for now, will you just update us on who you are and what your life looks like in this current season?
Dale Wilsher: Yeah, thank you. My name is Dale Wilsher Rakes. Actually, Dale Wilsher is my maiden name, and that's what I've always used for my business, but I got married a couple of years ago, so that has been big for me.
I'm a life and career coach. I'm a speaker and an author. I have to say, getting married a couple of years ago was a huge thing for me. Jeff is the man of my dreams. I had been a single mom for seven years prior to getting married. I had full custody of all four of my daughters who were deeply hurting. It's very rare to get full custody. It was a very difficult season. There were several suicide attempts with my daughters, lots of interventions. It was challenging. So to come out of that time when we were all carrying such a heavy load. [00:02:17]
In 2016, I met Jeff, and we knew pretty quickly that this was probably going to be it, but we weren't ready to get married. I have a big crew. So we bought houses down the street from each other, and the realtor was like, "Oh my gosh, this is the best day of my life. I just sold two houses. You're kidding."
Jeff would push his little lawnmower down, and he mowed my grass, and he would do the same and help me shovel and all the things that I would have to be doing with all the other dads at my last house. So it was delightful.
Then when we got married a few years later, then we all moved down the street into Jeff's house. So for the last couple of years, we've been blending our houses and our hearts. I'm so grateful.
I was married for 23 years the first time, and it was difficult. Came with a lot of brokenness. To know that marriage can be like this, even when we fight, he gets so mad, because I'm like, this is awesome. [00:03:17] So just enjoying this.
For me, my verse has always been from Job, where it says at the very end that God blessed the latter half of Job's life more than the first. And me too. Everyone is doing really well.
My girls are now ages 18 to 25. The oldest is a chemical engineer in Mobile, Alabama, and my second is 23. She is a nurse who just got her dream job with Children's Hospital here in Denver on the oncology floor. All the rest of us live in Boulder. Savannah's the only one who's out of town.
Then I have two who are in college right now. One is a senior who's going to graduate with a degree in criminal justice, and then one who's a freshman who's looking to do social work. Knowing how much healing has had to happen, and how we really prioritize mental health, and how that's created a lot of resilience, and also a lot of purpose for my daughters. Seeing their majors and their mission in life really speak to some of the deeper hurts they have. [00:04:20] I'm so darn proud of those girls.
I just became an empty nester, which is crazy. I've never had this level of freedom. It feels like forever. I'm thoroughly enjoying having time now that they're all in a great place to enjoy my husband, but also my business. For the last 15 years, I've been a speaker, but mostly in the faith-based setting, and mostly to women.
Now, I speak mostly in the corporate and business world. I talk about meaningful productivity and meaningful engagement, really connecting your work to your why. Because I believe that if I can help them connect to their hearts, usually in an environment they're not thinking about their hearts, then that's my opportunity to help them also get closer to the Lord.
I also speak in the medical world, because burnout is caused by a lack of purpose. I help them double down and find their unique meaning in the work that they're doing. As an executive life and career coach, I work with a lot of ambitious Christian women, is what I say. [00:05:25] It's not always women. It's not always Christians. But people who have big dreams.
So I'll help a lot of women build authentic coaching businesses, or find their ideal jobs, and just live really full, abundant lives. There's a lot to that that I like to contribute in the form of boundaries, and getting rid of limiting beliefs, and all that kind of stuff.
I've also launched a couple of digital courses, and wrote a book. My life is very full, and I'm really grateful.
Laura Dugger: Yes. Oh, my goodness. That is the word that came to my mind as you were sharing, is you have such a full life. Thank you for being open-handed and authentically sharing a little glimpse of your story. I'm just assuming that there are many listening who maybe have walked through a similar path, or they can identify currently with parts of your story. I know that you're going to be a huge encouragement.
How has your personal career journey impacted the way that you're now helping other people turn their purpose into full potential? [00:06:28]
Dale Wilsher: Yeah. Thank you. I think it is important to tell our stories. And it always comes with a lot of humility. For me, that always feels like embarrassment, but God has done a lot. It's nice when you're a little further out in your story, because it's been several years now to see some of what He's doing. I think it's always the most challenging. I always applaud the women who are telling their stories while they're happening.
For 17 years, I was a stay-at-home mom. Before that, I was a microbiologist, and then I was in technical sales. I loved the work that I did. But when my children came along, I had always wanted to be a stay-at-home mom. I came from a long line of them, so that was a dream for me.
I love growing people. I love helping them find the best of who they are and see themselves through a lens of God's eyes and just all kinds of teaching things. I'm a huge fan of that.
As it went on, and obviously with several of them, that is a longer period of time, but I was married to an alcoholic who had some other addictions and mental illness that we weren't really aware of at the time. [00:07:36] That knowledge was kind of progressive, which we were like, oh, okay.
I would just try to honor my vows, but also protect my children and still honor a position as father the best I could. I needed to sacrifice basically my potential, my vocational potential to build theirs. It was worth it. Wouldn't change a thing.
But it definitely made it harder for me when all of a sudden one day I found myself separated. I did not see it coming. Like I said, I've been married 23 years, and this happened on my 23rd wedding anniversary. I got married when I was 23, so it was very eerie what God was doing, but I knew he was in it. We had had a lot of counseling. I had been praying for years, had a lot of people speaking into my life.
If you've ever gone through that or know someone who has, sometimes God uses something He hates, divorce, to overcome something He hates more, sinful lifestyles and the way people are treated in unloving ways. [00:08:39]
So I walked through that door and found myself needing to get full-time employment. That was very different. I had been speaking for years at that point, but it was a hobby. I always say I spoke to mops groups and some faith-based groups and... you know, you make potpourri and Starbucks cards like that. You cannot pay your mortgage with that stuff. So it's lovely, but I needed to ramp it up big time.
I met with people and tried to figure things out, but I felt very unprepared for a life outside of motherhood. I was very confused as to who I was and what I was truly equipped to do. I felt like I had been trying to be everything to everyone for a very long time, which made it very confusing as to who I was supposed to be, what I actually was good at. Was I good at anything? What did I have to contribute?
So for me, starting to define myself and the ways that God had gifted me and what I had to offer, that is what I want to do for others. [00:09:45] I want them to have direction because they have definition, that we're all a slice of his image.
None of us are called to be Him. We're in a body for that. We all get to contribute different things. And I believe it's so important that we know what we're here to do so that we can steward that and offer it to the world.
Laura Dugger: Wow, that was such an unplanned season of transition. It makes me think of all these other people where work has shifted recently over the past few years. So, from your perspective as a professional life and career coach, what are some common transitional times that you've noticed people have been reevaluating their career choice?
Dale Wilsher: Great question. As I mentioned, a life crisis, something like divorce or widowhood. I've definitely had clients who have been in both of those situations. I do find that right off the bat it is very difficult to make those kinds of decisions. [00:10:44] But once you've had a little bit of time and have moved through it, sometimes you just need to get work. But then to thoughtfully go after what am I really here to do? What do I really want to be able to contribute? So life crisis, career reentry.
For moms, some dads, but I have worked primarily with moms, their kids are old enough to be in school, and so now they need to get back and start contributing financially. Or it could be you've got an empty nest. You know, where I am right now, what is going to fill my time, and what is intentional?
I see it with people retiring as well. I've worked with a lot of people in medicine with some very meaningful jobs, and their personal lives don't seem to have the same amount of meaning, and so it's very difficult for them to feel like they're going to do purposeful work after medicine. But they need to retire from one thing so that they can also prioritize other important things.
Then finally, just unhappiness. You know, we're seeing it now with the great resignation. A lot of people have been unhappy in their work, and now they're starting to really take action on that. [00:11:50] You know, whether they've been bored or maybe burned out.
I had a client, her name is Kate. She was in marketing, and she was very unhappy with her work. She was a great woman, and I don't think other people at her job knew it, but she knew it. You know, she said that she kind of stumbled into her marketing major, was good at it, someone recommended it, and then she got a couple of good jobs right out of college and, you know, always did well. But she's like, "I don't even love this. Like, why am I doing this?"
And then one of the physicians I worked with, you know, he had a 30-year career in medicine, and yet he did all of that, as he's reflected back, to get the approval of one of his parents. Then you start asking, like, "What's wrong with me that I don't love what I'm doing? Am I not grateful or whatever it is?" And it's not that. It's just that your meaning is no longer being able to be delivered through your role. There's a better role for you.
But unhappiness, we need to listen to that. [00:12:49] A lot of times as women, we will say, Ah, you know, I'm just being selfish or it's not spiritual if I like it. As if it's only God's will if it stinks for us, which is not true.
So really paying attention to things that do not feel good and reflecting on those. Is there something better that you could be doing? And let that speak a little bit. So don't be impulsive. Let that be something that might open up some conversations with God.
Laura Dugger: Wow. This is such worthwhile work because as I'm listening to you, I'm just reflecting back on the early years of marriage. And this was my husband's story. He was good at what he did, trained as an engineer, worked at IBM, and was getting positive feedback and raises and different things. But it wasn't aligning with the meaningful work that he desired.
There were a lot of hard times in that season, but he made the career pivot and now works with Chick-fil-A and we are blessed and benefited by it daily. [00:13:56] It's infiltrated so many areas of our lives.
So I just want to encourage people if that is a little question or there's a little fire being lit with desire for this change to pursue it. I think you're such a great one to lead us on this journey. So whether we're returning to the workforce or someone is a professional considering a pivot into a new industry, what are some questions that we can begin to ask ourselves to uncover clues about our ideal career?
Dale Wilsher: There are many. There are many different ways to go after this. Some of the things that I have people look for... and I go through this in the digital course that I've created about finding ideal work, so that you can kind of look at it from different perspectives.
But one I call just emotional insights. So there's one category of emotion, the powerful emotions that speaks to meaningful work. Some of those examples are when you feel important or you feel proud, confident, valuable. [00:15:00] There's 13 in total.
But if you go back and reflect on times that you felt that way, what was it that you were doing? And not necessarily just the role because a role is not why you do something. It's not the purpose behind it. It's just the "what". There's many ways to deliver your why. But you know, what was going on? Were you working with people? Were you teaching them? Were you collaborating? Were you designing or creating? What was going on when you felt that way?
I also have people take a look at what their hobbies are, what their abilities or their interests are. I usually give lists because it's sometimes easier just to choose from a bunch of stuff and come out of thin air with these ideas. But those speak to usually things you're good at. So what does that say?
One of the things that has been my hobby for years is hot yoga. I love it. It's very athletic. A lot of professional athletes do it. It speaks to kind of challenging and empowering and strengthening my body, which I chose to strengthen people's souls and their meaning and the work I do. [00:16:08] But it's still kind of got a similar “why” to it. So looking at that.
Also, you know, what podcast do you listen to? What do you read all the time? What are those things that really interest you? Start there. What are those categories? And then what school subjects did you excel in? Go back to that.
One of my best courses in college, I couldn't even believe it was a course was logic. And I was like, I cannot believe this is a subject. This is just intuitive. This is inherent. And people are like, No, actually it's not.
And part of logic is seeing patterns underneath what's there. And that speaks to my why. That's what I do. I help people see deeper meaning in things. And that was speaking even back then that I saw patterns. I just didn't have words for it. So pay attention to those kinds of things.
I had a young client who had been out of high school for a couple of years. His name was Ben. He really had no idea what he wanted to do. He was kind of caught up in the pandemic where everything canceled. [00:17:10] He just really wasn't sure what his thing was.
He always loved history. That was his favorite subject, the one that he excelled in in school. But when we went back through it, it had to do a lot with the teacher because Ben was very relational and needed to be in relational kinds of work. But also it was a lot about investigative thinking. The way that that teacher thought really kind of indicated that Ben liked to think as an investigator. And that's one of the personality types that we have in work is the investigative personality type. So that can speak to some of the major responsibilities or activities in work when you look at kind of what you love and how you were designed.
Laura Dugger: I love that. When I hear you talking about selecting your elective, it makes me reflect back to the time when I had to confirm with someone like, "Wait a minute, you mean I can get paid to help people with their relationships. That's incredible." Each of us, it probably does look very different. [00:18:11]
I like how you said, sometimes you put out a specific list for people to grab onto that. So what is a sample list of values and how can we connect those with our to-do list to see if what we're spending our time doing is what actually matters most to us?
Dale Wilsher: That's a great question. I am a huge fan of people understanding their values and really articulating what matters most to them. Values are intangibles. Like hiking is not a value. It's an activity. But what it gives you might be adventure or it could be peace or solitude. Those are the values.
Same thing with family. I used to have when my clients would do that, family would be always at the top and faith. Especially with me, I said, that's a group of people. What it gives you is the value. Do they give you connection? Do they give you warmth? Do they give you support?
So we're always looking a little bit underneath to understand the values because that's how you align with a truly authentic life. [00:19:18] They are the desires that God has put in your heart. So some examples are authenticity, growth, responsibility, courage. I mentioned some of those: support, peace.
I have a tool that I will… we can put in the show notes if you like, which is a life purpose chart that gives values that I see a lot based on personality type. It's not exact, but I usually find about 70% of a person's values align with their personality type. So it's just nice to have a little bit of a list so you can choose and what resonates the most.
In this talk that I give on meaningful productivity. I do an exercise where I help people discern if they're just reacting to urgency or if they're truly doing what's important. And those would be values-based activities.
I have them list their to do list in a column, just on the left-hand side. Just write down the things that are on your to-do list for today. Now you could also list it for your goals for the year or your goals for the month, whatever it might be. [00:20:17]
Then on the right-hand side, I have them list out at least three of their values, things that just matter to you. I used to give people a long list of values, but then I found it was shopping at Nordstrom like, well, I've never needed a pair of red shoes, but it looks great. So I'll take them anyway.
So I try not to give people too many choices. I actually would rather ask questions and listen for the values that are elicited. But there are lots of lists online.
Then list those out and then draw lines from your to-dos to the values that they honor. What often happens is that you're like, there's no value that this honors. You know, I had one mom tell me like, "I'm doing laundry. There's no value to that."
Actually, as we mined down and we talked about how it shows that she's loving her family or caring for people, or there was some spiritual significance and washing away, you know, yesterday's dirt. We talked about that. [00:21:19]
But there are some things that we're doing that are just shoulds. They're other people's values. They're not really things that are authentic or needed at the time. So really being clear on what you're doing, is it attached to something that is deeply meaningful to you? That's an important way to discern how you're doing with your time.
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Laura Dugger: Dale, I'm not sure if you're familiar with the Holocaust survivor and psychiatrist who was named Viktor Frankl, but he once said that life is never made unbearable by circumstances, but only by lack of meaning and purpose. I hear you focusing a lot on helping people with meaning and purpose. So with all of that in mind, how do you help people uncover their purpose in life?
Dale Wilsher: I love Viktor Frankl. In fact, I got COVID when COVID hit in like March, whatever, 20. My husband and I were down for two weeks solid. He worked at a medical clinic, got it from a provider. So we were pretty sick. We didn't go to the hospital.
But during that time, I don't know why I chose to read Man's Search for Meaning by Viktor Frankl. And it was fascinating, but it honestly... it was his story of living through a concentration camp and how difficult that was and how he felt like besides the sovereignty of getting through that, that the reason he was able to survive is he was able to find meaning in those dire circumstances. [00:24:41]
So I believe meaning is crucial. And a lot of it comes from the way we think about things. Then they've actually found that meaning comes from four things. It comes from people and our relationships. It comes from purpose, which I'll talk about that in just a second. It comes from positivity of really redeeming, which is what Viktor Frankl did, finding meaning in suffering and seeing the positive spin, the good in that, you know, Romans 8:28. And then participation. That's something bigger than you.
For those of us with faith, it's the transcendence and the awe that we have toward God. So all of that. So when I go back through, I work on all those things with people. But purpose specifically, I help them by... I usually go through a process that's threefold.
First, I really want them to understand their personality type. There are specific strengths and motivators and values that are usually aligned with each of those types. And I want them to understand who they truly are, not who they think they should be, that leads to personality mass, but who they really are. [00:25:44] And then again, to define those values. That's kind of how you deliver your why is through those values.
As I mentioned, authenticity and growth, and courage is a huge one, which has gotten me through some really difficult times. Before I went through kind of this epiphany when I was single and really not liking who I was. I was not liked by the people around me and I could only see my weaknesses.
I remember kind of thinking that I was going to have to be way different for God to really... for me to be more like Jesus. And it was in this moment that I was out shoveling the driveway with all the other dads that I was so grateful that I was gritty enough to do that and courageous and strong. I realized that my personality type that God had given me and all the values that went with that, that was a blessing, not a curse. That He had equipped me for the journey that I would be on.
I have to say, I don't know if we all would have survived literally had he not given me this personality. [00:26:50] So that is very purposeful. You have to see through a lens of positivity.
Then finally, when I do the ultimate kind of like "why" statement or purpose statement, I have a variety of methods. One is... many of y'all might know this. It's the five levels deep. Some people will call it seven levels deep, but you kind of define what you love.
Like if you love being a mom or you love doing a certain job, what do you love about it? And then you ask five times, why do you love that? And whatever the answer is, and why do you love that? And then why is that important? Why do you love that? And you basically get down to the bottom, which is the reason that you do what you do.
And when I did that activity for me, it's because I want everyone to steward every strength they've ever been given. I want them to live up to their highest potential. I want every opportunity that God has given more than we can ask or imagine to be realized by all of His people. So five levels deep is one great way. [00:27:50]
Another great way, which is super fun is to determine or kind of figure out what your favorite movie was as a child. I do this when I have a deeper time with clients. Because what story sticks to your heart? Because you watched a million stories or you read a million books.
You know, we've all seen a lot of things. There are actually 9 million minutes in our first 18 years. But the things that stuck, whether that's our memories or the movies and especially who your character is, that speaks to something that is deeply purposeful to you.
My movie was when I was 13. It was 1979. It's called Heaven Can Wait. And it was like, right, same year that Grease came out. But it was a big movie back then. It was all about this football player that died. They accidentally pulled him out of his body. He really didn't die. So now they have to put him back into his body and they don't have the right body so they have to go put him in some other ones.
So the people that I loved in that movie were able to see beyond the outside, beyond the body to who he was underneath. [00:28:54] They saw him for who he was. And that spoke to what I do. I see deeper meaning in people.
So when I had one client whose movie was Top Gun, and I kept thinking all about Maverick. She goes, "No, no Maverick's not my person. Goose is." And her “why” had a lot to do with that she was this incredible support person that aligned with these really powerful people, very much like Goose did for Maverick. And she helps them see what is really meaningful in life that, because sometimes ambition can blind us. So it's a fascinating thing.
I have one of my clients, her movie was Rudolph the Red-Nosed Reindeer. She remembers crying when she was like six years old because he couldn't play in any reindeer games. As we went through her why, her why is to see old things in a new way. She's actually an interior designer for historic properties. But she does that so that people and properties can shine very much like Rudolph's nose. [00:29:55]
So think about it. What was your movie and what was it saying? Who is your character? What were they all about? That has significant meaning.
Then the other part is kind of like, what's the world you want to live in? What's wrong with the world sometimes is the way we go after it. For me, it's a world where people don't tap their potential because they don't know they have it, or they didn't know it was available to them, whatever that might be. I want the opposite. That's a part of your why. So lots of stuff there, but lots of good stuff.
Laura Dugger: That is good stuff, Dale. It really sounds so worshipful when you present it, because I think you've said basically when we discover more about ourselves or the way that God created us, it does lead us to worship and stand in wonder of our creator. Again, this is just such worthy work.
What are some examples of our values and purpose than lining up with an ideal career?
Dale Wilsher: That's kind of where we take these ethereal concepts... and it's got to be practical. [00:30:57] That's part of what I don't like, just sitting in great ideas. I really want it to land and make it happen. One client who is a family practice doctor, her values were connection, encouragement, and comfort. And you could see how medicine was a good fit. Those wouldn't automatically say, "Oh, you should be in medicine." But it was a great fit.
Her “why” is to speak truth and bring light into darkness. So she has the freedom to do that because she doesn't work in a hospital. She works in a clinic where she has more freedom and she's able to speak into the whole person versus being a specialist. But she said that when people are hurting, they are more open to light. And that is an ideal environment for her to deliver her values and her why.
Another client, four children, needed to go back to work and was getting her degree as a paralegal. And her values were order and holiness, which really, you know, for a lot of that, it's like truth. [00:32:03] That there is a truth. And the law is very much about the truth. Compassion, support. These were all things that absolutely fit being a part of the legal system as a paralegal. There's no telling where she will go with that. I've seen it. I mentioned the client who did marketing. That was a bad fit for her in the position she was in, in that realm, because she really valued freedom and she valued communication and she valued health. And she wasn't able to do much with those values in her job.
So what we have been able to discern is that some type of teaching or training probably in health and nutrition. And now that it's looking at which of the ways that she could make that happen through a podcast, through joining an e-learning platform as one of their trainers, lots of different ways to make that happen.
Another client was going back into the workforce after a divorce and she was the social butterfly personality. So her values were connection and fun and freedom, kind of similar to Kate's. [00:33:08] So she kept thinking that she needed to go work in a bank and be a bank teller. And part of that was because her ex-spouse was more of the improver personality type that does value accuracy and doing things right.
She kept thinking she had to be like him and do work like that, that's who she was. Actually, she found that that was a horrible fit and she was miserable. She found a lot of joy and a lot of opportunities for promotion in retail. She actually ended up working with a container store and right away negotiating for design work and higher salary. And really it was a beautiful culmination of who she was and her passions coming to fruition.
Laura Dugger: Wow. That's really helpful to grab on to both those matches and the mismatches.
Have you checked out our library of articles available at TheSavvySauce.com? New posts are added multiple times a month related to parenting, intimacy and marriage, personal development, habits, and other topics connected to what we discuss here on The Savvy Sauce. [00:34:17] If you sign up to join our email list, you're also going to enjoy little extras delivered straight to your inbox.
Our hope is to encourage you to have your own practical chats for intentional living. So these freebies will include things like questions that you can ask on your next date night, safe resources to read to promote enjoyment in your intimacy and marriage, or questions to ask your kids to connect at a more relational level.
We hope you check out all the available reads at TheSavvySauce.com under the articles tab. Your previous episodes on The Savvy Sauce focused more around personality, which we're kind of alluding to, and that's another area of your expertise. So how does our personality impact the type of career that suits each of us best?
Dale Wilsher: It's an important part. You cannot neglect how you were designed when you were looking for how you were going to deliver your contribution. [00:35:14] Your personality is meant to give direction and to provide just an indication of where you can be more productive or you can be more satisfied, where you'll be more creative.
I talk about personality in a four-type system. That's what the book, What's Your Mom Type was built on. Goes way back to Hippocrates. But in those four types, there are specific environments that they thrive in and specific types of jobs.
Ben, who I mentioned earlier, he's a stabilizer. Stabilizers are more service-oriented kind of behind the scenes. They're actually the biggest portion of the population. They do best working on teams. I see them a lot in the nonprofit sector. I see them a lot prioritizing relationships, being very caring and nurturing like in therapy or in some kind of counseling area. I see it and a lot of educational systems. I see it with support specialists. I see it in medicine.
They do like established methods. [00:36:14] So they're great when they're in customer service or maybe even in banking, something that's already established. They don't do well starting their own businesses. They do well joining one, but that's not their ideal thing.
Same thing with, say, the opposite who's the doer. Now they are a smaller portion of the population and they need to do work where they're rewarded for their results. So they need something where what they do matters and it contributes to a bottom line. Something where they can be independent, overcome a lot of challenges, be fast.
My daughter, Caroline, this is her major type. I remember when she worked at Chick-fil-A as a 16-year-old and they tried her out in different positions and she killed it on a drive-through because she was so fast. And that's where it mattered. There are other places that you don't want somebody being that fast because then people feel run over. But when you are waiting for that fabulous chicken sandwich, you would like it to come out quickly.
And there's many books written on this. [00:37:15] You know what? I use Myers-Briggs. I use something called the Holland Code, which is really a job personality. I mentioned that the investigative is one of them. Some people are social, you need to be working with people or for people.
So just investigating all these different areas of who you are, it can really start to create some themes that you'll notice. And then you can start to make some decisions based on that.
Laura Dugger: And just to go a little bit further with those four personality types, we kind of covered two of them that were opposite. Could you also elaborate a little bit more on the other two that are opposite of one another?
Dale Wilsher: Yeah, you bet. So the improver, which is the more analytical detail-oriented, we could say precisionist, a lot of us in our negative we'll say perfectionist, you do well in environments that are more academic or even financial in a way that accuracy matters. You get rewarded for quality.
Also, I've seen this a lot with physicians and lawyers and other types of jobs that have a lot of schooling because it takes a lot of patience in that academic realm to allow someone to really thrive there. [00:38:27] So I see them at higher levels of education, not necessarily at the younger levels, but maybe more academic, college-level settings.
I see this in writers and editors. I see it in architecture. But something where critical thinking, it matters. So if your job was to just be in front of people. And certainly, you can speak. But you're going to speak in a more formalized way. So you think about is that the way to do it?
Usually something that allows you to do quality work. When my daughter, who's now at Children's, so pediatrics was perfect for her as the opposite of this type, but she was considering which specialty. And surgery for her was not ideal because that was very precise. The patients were asleep and she likes interacting with patients. So she's like, "Well, I would barely get to do that." And it was quiet. Again, it was all about getting it just right. She's like, "I don't love that." I said, "I agree." But if you're an improver and a nurse, that might be ideal. [00:39:27]
So then the opposite is that social butterfly. I call them the connector, because that's what they're here to do is connect with people. So anything with high people contact is a must. They need to be able to interact with others because they're inspiring and influential and very optimistic. So they need places where they're not just to tell us what could go wrong. There are the ones who get to bring the hope and the joy.
So environments where there's a lot of variety, they usually have a very high number of dopamine receptors. So variety feeds those. They love things that are fresh and new all the time, the ability to express themselves, to communicate. Those are all the kinds of environments.
I see that a lot in sales and marketing because they're very influential and persuasive. I see it in human relations or human resources, interior design. It's very creative. But again, you could be an improver and be an interior design. I believe Joanna Gaines from Fixer Upper is more of an improver because she's a little bit more deep and thoughtful. So her design and creativity comes out of that. [00:40:30]
So it's really just understanding what your great gifts are and what is probably common to that. And also what your weaknesses are. Usually, the opposite type will fill in your gaps. When I was in graduate school, which was a highly academic environment, I was getting my PhD in molecular biology, that is an improver environment, and I'm not an improver.
My parents were, and I was always trying to get their approval. But I kept thinking, like, What is wrong with me? That I am just not excelling here. What is going on? And while I liked all the science, I didn't like just thinking of the theory. I kept wanting to make it practical, which when I finally... I felt like that's one of the first moments I heard God speak to me, like, I need you to leave. And I thought, Oh my gosh, that's going to be embarrassing to all those people who got me into graduate school.
And so I did. I took a leave of absence and I got a job with a pharmaceutical company, which was much more practical where I could do the science. But that kind of shame, what's wrong with me, it may be that you're in the wrong environment for your personality. [00:41:31] So always know what you're really, really strengthened to do.
Laura Dugger: Wow. That's so good. I actually have thought of that question multiple times this week. Even in parenting, there are certain parts that I'll think, what is wrong with me? Why do I need so many outlets of adult interaction time? What is wrong with me? And I was realizing that's a little bit of a shaming question to myself. But I relate to that connector personality. It's helpful to connect that, that that is how God wired me, and then takes discernment to figure out how to fulfill my roles well and steward this well, and yet be wise in the way that I'm filled up so I can pour out.
Dale Wilsher: For sure. And aren't you in the perfect role as a podcaster? Communicating and inspiring and influencing people with your great gifts. By the way, since we're usually married to our opposites, usually we share values, but we have opposite personality types, the stuff that bugs us is usually not the stuff that bugs them. [00:42:35] So that's where we can start to think what's wrong with me. Like, this doesn't bother my husband or this doesn't bother my wife. It's like, it probably won't. But really understanding that, you know, usually the stuff that bothers us, it keeps us from delivering what is important to us.
So if you can't connect with others, that would be deeply hard. You know, that's not what you were designed to do. So I love that you're in this role. You're great at it.
Laura Dugger: Thank you, Dale. You're always such an encouragement. You know that we love practical application here. So what are a few homework assignments that you recommend and how can they help?
Dale Wilsher: I think if you're considering what is meaningful and what is your purpose and how might you be intentional with your time, the first thing you need to do is block some time. I'm a big fan of some time management tools that prioritize these things that will get eaten up by the urgent.
So a time blocking tool is just basically a grid with all the hours in the day and across the top is each day of the week where you literally say from 10 to 11 or from one to four, you know, because maybe you have a break or maybe whatever it might be, or even within your own job, you're able to kind of move some stuff out of the way. [00:43:53]
What time do you want to give that you can prioritize this kind of work? Because no one's usually sitting around waiting for you to figure it out. Not like they are waiting for dinner or waiting for their lunch to get made or whatever it is. So prioritize that. Use some time blocking.
Again, if you want to Google time-blocking tools, there's usually some great stuff out there. I like thinking big. That's when it's time to sit down and do some vision casting. A cool exercise is to write your eulogy. What would you want people to be able to say about you? Especially those meaningful relationships. What do you want to do before you quote-unquote, "retire"? You know, when you feel like at that point, you're not going to be given it all to whatever your area of service is.
What do you want? Who do you want to help? How do you want to help? "I want to help" is not a purpose statement, but how you want to deliver that. You know, ask some big questions. Do that five “why” exercise that I talked about where you just constantly ask, why do I like this? And why is that important? And why do I like that? [00:44:55] Just keep going down five or seven layers. It's fun to do it with someone else because you'll reveal more in a conversation than you would just writing things down. So find a great friend to do that with.
The other thing I think that's so important when you're considering this is to really notice who you're connected to. And I have people write out this list of your current 100 where you make a list of maybe it's your Christmas card list, but it's also your neighbors and their spouses and what jobs they have or who they work for.
You are connected to more people than you realize. And you are connected to some people who are probably doing some things that you might be interested in doing one day. And those connections, they call it the strength of weak ties. It's usually not your close-knit group. It's the layer or two out. They are the ones that are more likely to help you get a position than anyone else. So make a list of who you're connected to. [00:45:53]
Laura Dugger: Wow. You're amazing at vision casting and giving us this big-picture view. Now, what is one small step we can take in order to make progress and not lose the momentum that results from an inspiring conversation like this one?
Dale Wilsher: That is so important, Laura. I'm really glad that, you know, there you are landing the plane. Because we can talk about good stuff, but we won't ever achieve it. We won't tap that potential unless we do something.
I think choosing one thing. You know, is it that you want to know your “why”? Is it that you feel like you need to define your personality? You know, lots of people like lots of different tools. Whatever your tool is, make sure it's speaking to... make a list. What are your greatest strengths and who could benefit from those? Pick something that you really want to know.
Because I think the small step that will also keep this going is then get an accountability partner, get a coach, get a good friend who's also thinking about the same thing. [00:46:55] Tap into a study group, your Bible study group. Find some people who maybe want to read a book about purpose or personality and talk about what that speaks to and find people who can keep you in the game and also teach you about yourself.
They can share some things that they love and respect and admire about you that you're probably not seeing in yourself.
Laura Dugger: And Dale, you would be a fantastic coach for someone. I love that you're somebody who now they're getting to know, and maybe they can look into your website and find next steps there. So where can we find out more about you online?
Dale Wilsher: Thank you. My website is yourauthenticpersonality.com. You can also find me by DaleWilsher.com. That will send you right to Your Authentic Personality. And there are pages for my speaking, but for my coaching.
One thing that might really be particularly helpful is the career kickstart digital program that I have. We're going to launch it again, I believe February 7th. We'll launch it three times in 2022. [00:47:59] Registration begins January 25th and ends on February 2nd. The course begins on February 7th and it will go through March 25th.
So if you go to the page for career kickstart, it's a 30-day program, meaning you're going to get 30 days' worth of content, videos, and worksheets. And you'll also have opportunities to be in an accountability group and also have a couple of one-on-one sessions with me, if that's something that you're interested in. There's several levels.
But that really is for all the different populations that we talked about. Whether you're retiring, whether you're gearing up for a whole new career or your first career, or you're just wanting to see what else is out there, that is a great tool to do it. You can go at your own pace, but you can also get involved in a community that's doing the same thing.
So Your Authentic Personality, look around. There's lots of resources for moms. Certainly the book is a great resource. There's a course on the book. Certainly reach out. There's lots of places that you can contact me. If you have questions, I'd love to be able to talk to you. [00:49:04] Of course, I do individual coaching. If you're looking for something more customized or something that needs to be a little faster and you want some additional help, I'd love to be able to help you with that.
Laura Dugger: Wonderful. We will link to all of that in the show notes of today's episode. You may remember that we're called The Savvy Sauce because "savvy" is synonymous with practical knowledge or insight. And so as my final question for you today, what is your savvy sauce?
Dale Wilsher: Yeah, that's such a great question. I think without having a good phrase right off the bat, I think self-help, which a lot of times in Christian circles is frowned upon. I believe in self-help and the way that we have to understand ourselves. But self-help is supposed to lead to others' help. The reason that we know ourselves is so we can really contribute the best of ourselves to others.
If you have something awesome in the bottom of your purse and you don't know it's there, it's never going to serve anyone. [00:50:03] So you need to be brave enough and humble enough to know who you are so that if it's time to take all of your strengths that are being used in a private sphere and move it into the public sphere, you will have the confidence to act. Because confidence is built on action. Rumination with all the overthinking keeps us from acting. But you cannot act and ruminate at the same time. So take some action. Get out there and learn and grow and tap your very full potential.
Laura Dugger: Always a great savvy sauce. It really reminds me... I just want to share one piece of scripture that I was camping out in this morning, and I think it relates to this talk and this charge that you've given to each of us. So it's from 1 Timothy 6:16 in the amplified version. And I'll just read it here. It says, "Pay close attention to yourself [concentrate on your personal development] and to your teaching; persevere in these things [hold to them], for as you do this you will ensure salvation both for yourself and for those who hear you." [00:51:13]
So, Dale, I want to encourage you. Thank you for taking that verse seriously and applying it and encouraging and motivating all of us to do the same. I always look so forward to our time together because your energy and positivity is contagious. And I always learn so many new concepts. So thank you for equipping each of us today. And I just want to say thank you for being my guest.
Dale Wilsher: Oh, thank you, Laura. And thank you for that verse. I thought I had kind of tapped into every verse that was on this topic. And honestly, I had never put that one together. It was powerful. Thank you. Thank you for reminding us where this all comes from.
Laura Dugger: One more thing before you go. Have you heard the term "gospel" before? It simply means good news. And I want to share the best news with you. But it starts with the bad news. Every single one of us were born sinners and God is perfect and holy, so He cannot be in the presence of sin. Therefore, we're separated from Him.[00:52:13]
This means there's absolutely no chance we can make it to heaven on our own. So for you and for me, it means we deserve death and we can never pay back the sacrifice we owe to be saved. We need a savior. But God loved us so much, He made a way for His only Son to willingly die in our place as the perfect substitute.
This gives us hope of life forever in right relationship with Him. That is good news. Jesus lived the perfect life we could never live and died in our place for our sin. This was God's plan to make a way to reconcile with us so that God can look at us and see Jesus.
We can be covered and justified through the work Jesus finished if we choose to receive what He has done for us. Romans 10:9 says that if you confess with your mouth Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. [00:53:15]
So would you pray with me now? Heavenly, Father, thank You for sending Jesus to take our place. I pray someone today right now is touched and chooses to turn their life over to You. Will You clearly guide them and help them take their next step in faith to declare You as Lord of their life? We trust You to work and change their lives now for eternity. In Jesus name, we pray, amen.
If you prayed that prayer, you are declaring Him for me, so me for Him, you get the opportunity to live your life for Him.
At this podcast, we are called Savvy for a reason. We want to give you practical tools to implement the knowledge you have learned. So you're ready to get started?
First, tell someone. Say it out loud. Get a Bible. The first day I made this decision my parents took me to Barnes and Noble to get the Quest NIV Bible and I love it. Start by reading the book of John. [00:54:14]
Get connected locally, which basically means just tell someone who is part of the church in your community that you made a decision to follow Christ. I'm assuming they will be thrilled to talk with you about further steps such as going to church and getting connected to other believers to encourage you.
We want to celebrate with you too. So feel free to leave a comment for us if you made a decision for Christ. We also have show notes included where you can read Scripture that describes this process.
Finally, be encouraged. Luke 15:10 says, "In the same way, I tell you, there is rejoicing in the presence of the angels of God over one sinner who repents." The heavens are praising with you for your decision today.
If you've already received this good news, I pray that you have someone else to share it with today. You are loved and I look forward to meeting you here next time.
Welcome to The Savvy Sauce
Practical chats for intentional living
A faith-based podcast and resources to help you grow closer to Jesus and others. Expect encouragement, surprises, and hope here. Each episode offers lively interviews with fascinating guests such as therapists, authors, non-profit founders, and business leaders.
They share their best practices and savvy tips we can replicate to make our daily life and relationships more enjoyable!
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