200. Planting Seeds of Faith in Our Children with Courtney DeFeo
Galatians 6:7 (NIV) Do not be deceived: God cannot be mocked. A man reaps what he sows.
**Transcription Below**
Questions and Topics We Discuss:
When you reflect back on parenting, what are you most pleased with, regarding ways you and your husband chose to invest in your family?
What are a few of your favorite ways to plant and cultivate seeds of faith in everyday family life with your own kids?
How can we disciple our children to be a friend to God?
Courtney DeFeo wants to be a resource and help to YOU, more than she want you to be impressed by HER. She believes God gifted all of us with unique talents and passions. She's had fun discovering a few of hers and using them to support her fellow moms, parents and women in this journey called life. What’s the point of great ideas if we just hoard them to ourselves? However, it’s important to note – she in a “Season of Rest” right now! Find out more on her website: www.courtneydefeo.com.
Other Episodes Mentioned:
Finding Your Purpose as a Mom with Courtney DeFeo
*Special Patreon Release* Ideas for Spreading Generosity with Courtney DeFeo
Self-Care in Motherhood with Karen Stubbs
Life is Better with the Holy Spirit with Jeannie Cunnion
Thank You to Our Sponsors: Solid Rock Christian Academy and Chick-fil-A East Peoria
Connect with The Savvy Sauce on Facebook or Instagram or Our Website
Please help us out by sharing this episode with a friend, leaving a 5-star rating and review, and subscribing to this podcast!
Gospel Scripture: (all NIV)
Romans 3:23 “for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,”
Romans 3:24 “and are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus.”
Romans 3:25 (a) “God presented him as a sacrifice of atonement, through faith in his blood.”
Hebrews 9:22 (b) “without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness.”
Romans 5:8 “But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us.”
Romans 5:11 “Not only is this so, but we also rejoice in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have now received reconciliation.”
John 3:16 “For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.”
Romans 10:9 “That if you confess with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.”
Luke 15:10 says “In the same way, I tell you, there is rejoicing in the presence of the angels of God over one sinner who repents.”
Romans 8:1 “Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus”
Ephesians 1:13–14 “And you also were included in Christ when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation. Having believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit, who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God’s possession- to the praise of his glory.”
Ephesians 1:15–23 “For this reason, ever since I heard about your faith in the Lord Jesus and your love for all the saints, I have not stopped giving thanks for you, remembering you in my prayers. I keep asking that the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the glorious Father, may give you the spirit of wisdom and revelation, so that you may know him better. I pray also that the eyes of your heart may be enlightened in order that you may know the hope to which he has called you, the riches of his glorious inheritance in the saints, and his incomparably great power for us who believe. That power is like the working of his mighty strength, which he exerted in Christ when he raised him from the dead and seated him at his right hand in the heavenly realms, far above all rule and authority, power and dominion, and every title that can be given, not only in the present age but also in the one to come. And God placed all things under his feet and appointed him to be head over everything for the church, which is his body, the fullness of him who fills everything in every way.”
Ephesians 2:8–10 “For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith – and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God – not by works, so that no one can boast. For we are God‘s workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do.“
Ephesians 2:13 “But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far away have been brought near through the blood of Christ.“
Philippians 1:6 “being confident of this, that he who began a good work in you will carry it on to completion until the day of Christ Jesus.”
**Transcription**
[00:00:00] <music>
Laura Dugger: Welcome to The Savvy Sauce, where we have practical chats for intentional living. I'm your host Laura Dugger, and I'm so glad you're here.
[00:00:18] <music>
Laura Dugger: Our sponsors for today's episode are Solid Rock Christian Academy and Chick-fil-A East Peoria. Check out solidrockchristianacademy.org for their alternative schooling option with a solid biblical view. Visit cfeastpeoria.com for available employment opportunities or to place your catering order.
Courtney DeFeo is my returning guest today, and she is an engaging storyteller and resource genius, so she's going to share a lot of encouragement and direction with us, specifically as it relates to parenting in partnership with Jesus, so that we can provide rich soil in our children's lives and hopefully help them cultivate seeds of faith, which will provide blessings and benefits now and forevermore.
Here's our chat. [00:01:19]
Welcome to The Savvy Sauce, Courtney.
Courtney DeFeo: Oh, thank you. I'm glad to be back.
Laura Dugger: Well, the first time you were on The Savvy Sauce was over four years ago, I believe, so I can't wait to hear an update. What phase of life are you and your family currently in?
Courtney DeFeo: I can't believe it, but we're in the teen age, which is just crazy. So they're 13 and 16, 8th grade and 10th grade. Ron is still working at American. We're here in Texas. We'll get some time on the end. I'll tell you about my December, but we had a cancer journey with Ron this Christmas.
So a lot of what you'll hear me talk about today comes from a very surreal point of perspective. It's like, "Nothing matters. My husband's alive." And it makes all the things seem very trivial when you go through that. So he's happy to report he's doing great.
They got a pancreatic cancer. They found it early. They got everything out via a surgery, which is just an absolute miracle with this kind of cancer. And he doesn't need radiation or chemo. [00:02:19] So we are floating on a miracle and really thankful to have our main guy around for many years.
Laura Dugger: Wow. I have goosebumps everywhere hearing that. Goodness.
Courtney DeFeo: I know. I say it real flippantly, but I think we're going to probably do an Instagram Live or Facebook to tell the whole story because it's truly like God's hand through the whole thing. And so there's a lot of details. I hate to lob that on people, but it's real. Our new lens of life is coming through that. And so I wanted y'all to... at least I have a heads up as I talk through some of these things.
Laura Dugger: Yes. Well, certainly keep us posted so that we can all tune into that. Now I'm especially excited to get your perspective. So when you and Ron do reflect back on parenting, what are you most pleased with regarding ways that you two chose to invest in your family?
Courtney DeFeo: Yeah. I think across the board, the time spent. And I don't think that's in a way of like quantity of time. I think it's quality of time. [00:03:21] We have really put them as a huge priority in both of our lives. And it goes consistently. Because it just flies. Everybody says that, but it's like here we are. My oldest is driving, and she's not home very often. She's gone all the time.
And so I just look back and think that those moments in the carpool and at the playground and at their field trips, you just can't get them back. And so we're so thankful that we've had time with them.
Laura Dugger: And is there anything that especially stands out? Was it more of those little moments that you're talking about or travels or the big celebrations? What comes to mind?
Courtney DeFeo: I think we do it differently. I do stay home for the majority of my day, so I'm able to be at all the things. And I do want to make a caveat up front that I heard one of my best friends, Sissy Goff, is a counselor. And she said that one of the danger traps that we're falling into as parents is making them our entire world. And so I do want to just set that stage that we are not obsessed with them to the point that they are our entire lives. [00:04:22] We still have our marriage. We still have our own walk of faith. I still have speaking and teaching and all the things that I do. But they're a pretty significant part, and we do intentionally spend a lot of time with them.
So I think that we can, as a culture, get kind of pulled into obsession where they're the only thing that matters. And then we can also swing too hard to the other way and neglect them. So I think wherever you fall on that tension is just knowing it and going, Oh, I'm creeping into helicopter mom or I'm creeping into not paying attention to them at all. And so it's different for each person.
But to answer your question, I'll use Ron. So Ron is an executive in America and he works a lot. And so he early on in our parenting read that book by Andy Stanley, Choose to Cheat, and was like, "You're going to have to cheat something. You can't do everything." So he will, when he's able, choose to cheat work or a meeting.
And as people know that... and sometimes he can't leave. But he has found that every morning he can take them to school. And so he has consistently over time taken them to school most days of the week, which I love. I'm like, yay, I'll stay in my pajamas. [00:05:22] But that's his window of like they listen to music, he catches up with them, they laugh.
And it's not as much time as I spend with them, but I can guarantee you looking back, they'll be like, My dad was there every morning. And he certainly puts the phone down and talks to them in the evening as well. But I'm so proud of him for that, because with his job, there's not a whole lot of like, Oh, I can just walk away for four hours and kind of sit at the field trip. There's not a lot of that. But when he's able, he is so there and so attuned to them and making little memories.
But as a family, we do like to travel. Obviously, with American, we've got some perks. And I like to be the house as well. We'll talk about that more in the teen years. But I like to have their friends over as often as possible. You learn a lot when you're in the house where people come. So mine is typically like saying yes to the sleepovers and the parties and the things so I can just keep an eye on who's in their life and pour into their friends as well. So that's a lot of material, but that's a few ways.
Laura Dugger: Yeah, that is so good. And I'll link back to our previous episodes together. [00:06:23] But in those we focused more on younger children. So today I want to switch our attention to those tween and teen years. You always have fabulous and fun ideas for planting and cultivating seeds of faith in our children. So what are a few of your favorite ways you do this in everyday life with your own girls?
Courtney DeFeo: Another caveat I want to say upfront is that Jeannie Cunnion has said this before, but we are significant as parents. We're not sovereign and God is sovereign. And so I will say a lot of things that we did or I did, but with the hope that you guys understand like God has moved through this whole thing. And I can't take credit for all the good. I certainly don't want to take credit for all the bad.
So it's like this constant thing where I want to encourage parents to be active and be intentional, but not put the entire responsibility on yourself. God redirected some things I thought were the path and they weren't the path for my kid. It's a balance. It's a balance. There's tension in all of it. [00:07:21]
So for middle school and high school, I have been very focused on people and places. So who is in their life and then where they are going to specifically experience God? That may look different for every family. They happen to be at a Christian school, but I don't think that's a mandate, you know? But I didn't want them there unless the faith was real. If it was a Christian school by label and people were not walking it out, we would not be there anymore. That is one place.
Camps. I know people have different feelings about overnight camps. But for one of my children, she's been significantly impacted by her faith in a specific overnight camp. And so we make time and set aside money to make sure she's in that environment.
Church on Wednesday. I know different, like the Northeast people are like, wouldn't that be nice to have a youth group program? But for here in Texas, where it's like Bible belt. We have let them try different ones and not... And for a while I wanted to make them go to our church, but they, for a season, went to other churches where their friends were. And they were just getting around people that would say the same thing that I would and a voice that they care about. [00:08:25]
So there's a phase where they just roll their eyes at you, you know, but then if you dial in a mentor or small group leader or a pastor that would say the same things you want to say, but they receive it differently because it's someone cool, someone younger. And so you'll really see that shift happening in middle school and high school where they start paying attention to other voices more than yours, whether it's their friends or other leaders. It's not to say they're not listening. They just may not go like, Mom, that was a good word. Thanks for sharing that.
So people and places. And I keep quoting people because I don't want to take their material, but Andy Stanley and Sandra had a big impact on me and their parenting ways. But they would say how to dial influences and dial them out. So by having kids in my car or having kids over at the house, I can see which friends need to come over for more often because my kids are completely themselves or they're comfortable. [00:09:20] And I can see which ones are going to kind of draw them in a direction I don't want them to go.
So it's not completely micromanaging that, but being aware of which people you want to make real easy. Like, "Hey, let's invite someone over. Hey, let's go to coffee with her mom." And making those opportunities easily available for people that just bring out the best in them.
High school, I'm learning painfully to let go and watching how God works. You know, like I wanted Ella to be on the tennis team, she didn't love it and she decided to get a job. She has learned more and grown more through that job than she ever would have been tennis for her particularly.
And so kind of watching them fail, so to speak, or do things not according to your plan, going like, "God, you know all the things that she needs to learn as a high schooler and you're going to put her in places that I didn't see coming.
So I am struggling, if I'm honest. It's a lot of them being away and I like to be real involved. So I'm forcing myself to ungrip and slowly loosen that grip so that when they leave for college, I'm not in a coma crying on the floor. [00:10:25] So there's a few ideas for those years.
Laura Dugger: I love how you articulate those ideas. It kind of makes me hungry for more. If you expand it beyond those tween and teen years, are there any things that stand out specifically when they were younger that you're so grateful you did to cultivate their faith life?
Courtney DeFeo: Yeah. Overall looking back and so glad we invested I think baby's years. I'm so glad I held them. I think we can get so wrapped up into schedules and doing it right. That's like, don't forget you have a newborn for just a little season. Hold them, not all the time, but snuggle them, enjoy them.
On the downside, I shopped too much. I was all into the matching smocking outfits, you know? And looking back, I'm like, "Man, I spent a whole lot of time making sure they looked perfect. And I don't know if that is probably worth." I've been doing every now and then, but I remember being obsessed for a season to make sure every... and I have girls, so it was like every season they matched and had the perfect dress. That was a probably great time spent.
I also am glad we were in small groups. [00:11:25] We had a consistent small group through church that just put me around other believers, other moms and dads together that were kind of thinking ahead and thinking how we were going to do this in a way that honors God. And that constant "just work on your own faith and in your own marriage" really set up perspective to not just drown when it's physically draining and just be like, Okay, I need to pull away for a minute, pull up, and see that life is bigger and more complicated than this one season of whatever the formula thing was or whatever the sleeping issue was. And so our small groups have the same baby years were huge.
Toddlers in preschool. I am so thankful we played and we focus on discipline. And you will see that with many people that didn't really want to discipline their kids. And then they get to like age eight, nine, they're like, Oh my gosh, we probably should have told them some boundaries.
So I would say toddlers just is not fun, but just stay consistent at teaching them that you are the mom and dad. They can't run in the street. They can't throw Cheerios at people. [00:12:26] Like those things will play out that they will respect your voice and know that you mean it later when you can't physically pick them up and put them in timeout when they're in elementary school.
Then lastly, at elementary, the carpool was just huge to consistently be there, field trips. And not all of them. I don't want to put this guilt on someone that's working full-time. It's not really the quantity. Like you don't have to go to everyone. But show up in a couple of their environments so they can see that you're present.
And then play dates. Just really getting them around other kids and teaching them how to share. The creativity that comes from playing is just massive for them.
So those are a few time investments. And then if you want to, we can get into some of the faith aspects for sure.
Laura Dugger: Yeah, absolutely. Feel free to elaborate on the faith part and also how you are making sure that your home is one that's welcoming for them to now bring their friends. Are there any practical things you do?
Courtney DeFeo: Yeah. I'll touch on that one first. [00:13:27] I think that even when we were shopping for a home, we had that lens in mind. Like what did the backyard look like? You know, can we get a trampoline? Like are there things that they can do here? And I don't think it has to do with money. It's just like, is the home set up a way? And then it's not like... I remember some of my friends' homes growing up were so perfect. We literally couldn't walk in certain rooms so they had to vacuum it.
So we're pretty like go with the flow. Like you'll look in my kitchen and there's hoverboard tracks all over the cabinets at the base because I let them ride hoverboards to the house. They learned to skate in here. I guess just caution people not to make your home so perfect that kids don't... And you don't want to have respect. They can't just destroy the place and spray paint the dining room, but they can feel comfortable to be kids.
My mom when I was growing up would put a cereal box... Like if you came over lunch, you said, I really like Lucky Charms, she would have Lucky Charms in the top of the pantry every time. So our pantry had literally like 25 boxes of cereal.
I'd say that practically because there was something about my mom's environment and my dad, but my mom specifically was like, You are welcome here. [00:14:32] You're not a bother. You belong in our home. We're excited to see you. And that does wonders. There's a lot of kids that don't feel that and your home may be their only place to feel seen.
So it's some of the practical stuff, but it's also just like knowing what's going on with them, checking in with them, greeting their friends and the place that they just want to keep coming back because they feel, you know, God's love through you. So lots of fun.
And I try to say yes as often as I can on the sleepovers and the annoying things with the perspective that like, it will not always be this way. [00:15:04] Like it will not always be a hundred sleeping bags and chips everywhere and all that. So yeah, there's a couple examples there.
Then on the faith things, I mean, this is such a hard question because every kid is different and some kids don't really grasp a hold of the gospel until they're in college. Some kids are early age. So anything you can do to keep that conversation going, not in a mandate, you're not... you know, you don't want them to feel like, You're not enough. You're not living up to this spiritual, you know, angel that I spoke to, but that it's a real thing and it's not always easy.
Obvious statement is that we need to live it out. That we need to be talking about our own journey. We need to pray. We need to be in the word. And I haven't always done that amazing. But I will say, with this cancer journey, they have seen our faith come to life. It's like we believe what we say we believe and we are going to... Ron has been on his knees on a pillow every day since he got that diagnosis, praying and thanking God for what He did.
They've seen our friends at our community of faith show up and lift us up in a way that we all felt this surreal kind of peace. [00:16:06] It's like, you can't just make that up and snap it into place. It's as years of investing in what we believe in that really came to light.
Also, and this was all my first book, I probably talked about it in your first podcast, but I'm really big into them experiencing faith over hearing constant lectures. So if you say, "Hey, generosity is a huge piece of who we are as a family, is what God thinks is a great idea, how do we do that regularly as a family and not just talk about it? Because words are good, but it's really when you see the action of faith play out that that sinks something in them. And I know it was true of me growing up. My mom just lived out service and loving others in a way that it was real, and you saw it.
Okay, next one. I know these are all over the place but... But I do think, like I said, now in these high school years, like do I truly trust that God has the best plan for Ella. And now that she's in high school, it is hard.
For example, I want her to go to Auburn. She may not go to Auburn. But I really want her to. [00:17:08] So I'm going to show her Auburn, but ultimately say to her, "I trust that God's going to guide you to the school and if you should go to college and which one. And really live that and not try to manipulate her entire life. It's easy for us to do it because we had certain dreams of what these little girls may grow up to be, but consistently putting them around youth groups that make God seem fun and where they can get a message.
And also reading your own experience. Like if I get an email from someone that something impacted them, or I prayed for them, I will read to them like, Hey, this is what happened while y'all were at school today. This is how God showed up and I can't believe it. So kind of a constant awe of what He's doing.
[00:17:46] <music>
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[00:20:16] <music>
Laura Dugger: You partnered with ParentQ to release this unique study and journal for moms and tween daughters, so will you just tell us more about that?
Courtney DeFeo: Yeah. I think I was getting into... there's a real shift, and you know this from your girls, it's all so cute. Like kindergarten, first grade, second grade, it's rainbows, unicorns, make-believe, it's all so sweet. And then all of a sudden around third grade, third, fourth, these girls and boys switch to be like, Oh my gosh, those other friendships are hard, my body's changing. Like it's like they wake up into a new level of life that is hard to watch because you're like, Oh my goodness, they never doubted their confidence, and now all of a sudden they don't like their legs or whatever the thing is.
And so I was looking around for a study that I could do with moms and daughters because I do feel like in that third, fourth, sixth age range, they're still thinking we're pretty cool and they're not embarrassed to be with us. Around middle school, that shifts and they're like, "Please don't come in. Don't show up, I don't want you around." And then I'm happy to say they come back around. Ella wants me around here in 10th grade. [00:21:17]
But all that to say, I wanted something for moms and daughters to talk about, not just Jesus, because of course we want to walk them through the Bible, but really the topics that were consistently hard and hurting most of these girls. And I was watching it come to life with my kids.
So I knew it was supposed to be a study. I knew it was supposed to be for tween girls, about 9 to 13. And God just kept pressing on me certain topics. I also knew I wasn't capable of doing the whole thing. So I called my buddies at Orange that does curriculum in churches all over the world and just said, "Hey, if I write most of it, will you help me design it? Will you help make it better?" And they said, yes.
And so we put out Treasured a few years ago. It's got six different sessions and there's a journal and a study. But the first one's about identity. The question is, what's unique about me? The second one is body. What's happening to my body? The third one is how do I handle my emotions? Obviously emotions. Then friends, then technology, and then faith.
So I felt like if we did those six really well, we would really touch on a majority of what is consuming their hearts and minds during that time. [00:22:22] It really set them on a trajectory where they might not get it and succeed at it, but they would have some seeds planted that when it's middle school and when it's high school, they can go back to, oh my gosh, what did we... you know, Lord put my heart back on what we already knew about friendships. And this is feeling weird again. How should I kind of anchor my thoughts on that topic around what Jesus might say?
There's a DVD and... I don't know who has DVDs anymore. But there's a digital version, we'll say, of the study that you can do in small groups of moms and daughters. And then there's a journal that comes alongside. And it's really designed for moms and daughters to do together in their own quiet space.
Laura Dugger: So the journal portion, can you share a little bit more what that's about?
Courtney DeFeo: Yeah, for sure. I'm a visual learner and I know my kids have very little attention span. So there's a lot of drawing and interacting with your mom in there. So for example, I'm looking at the identity one right now. It takes them through an exercise where they fill out a thumbprint. [00:23:24] Like what is unique about me? And you draw in there. And it's the chance for a mom to say like, I see unique things about you. You're different than your friend. Your friend isn't better than you. You're just different because I see the way God did this.
Also, I've had a lot of moms reach out and be like, oh my gosh, did I need this? So it's an exercise of a daughter reaching into some of these truths, but then a mom right alongside her either doing the crafty activity or reading through some of the questions.
My hope at the bottom of my heart is that people have conversations that this tool just kind of spurred up and set them in their laps versus like, Hey, we're going to learn from Courtney and Orange and just read out this stuff and memorize it. It's more of like just stirring the pot. Like as we think about body, there's a lot of things that come with body. We don't have the sex talk, but it tees you up to talk about some of these things that would naturally not come up otherwise.
So I really prayed when we were making it that these conversations would just become so normal that let's say emotions, when a daughter did struggle with her emotions, it's not the first time she's thought of it and it's not awkward for her to come back to her mom and say, "I feel so jealous" or "I feel so teary all the time" or "I'm angry. [00:24:35] Like what do I do with that?" And they can kind of circle back and talk through some things that, you know, this started with them.
Laura Dugger: I love how you had mentioned previously that you love that experiential learning. So can you just give one example of an activity that's involved in this study?
Courtney DeFeo: For sure. Let me pull it through. It's been so long. I picked it up this morning and I thought, "Man, I don't even know if I went through this in detail with a Larson. So I needed to circle back to it. But a couple of things it has in there.
I had a 12-year-old or 11-year-old that I trusted write a devotion and they can read out from another girl's words, which I think is super important. One of the things with emotions, I feel like the main idea is that you actually can be in control of your emotions more than you think. So it's not like total control, but it's like you don't want them in the driver's seat. Like if you have a car, most of the tween world is that the emotions are just going so high because your body is changing. Your physical body is changing and your emotional interior is changing. So when they feel totally out of control and they just want to go punch something, okay, that's real. [00:25:39] So let's start naming it. Like, were you angry? Were you hungry?
And then it gives them an activity on how to work through that and how to gauge on their temperature. Okay, what are we feeling? First, it tells them, "First stop. What are you feeling? And then you draw it. Now breathe.
Next one is name it. What are you feeling? Are you frustrated, overwhelmed, scared? Then refocus. What are things that can help you reset? Like maybe for one kid it's a bath, one kid, let's say, turning on some praise music. And just equipping them for things I think I'm working on as a 46-year-old. Like how do I not let emotion in the heat of the thing dictate my whole day? How can I kind of reset?
And kind of pull up and look at it. Because when they're little, it's mainly sadness and anger that come bursting out, but we know that there's more to that. And if they act only when they're hangry, life isn't going to be good. I mean, it's like, hold on, get a snack, take a little breather, and let's come back at that.
You know, you probably had moments as an adult where you send an email in the heat of a moment when someone's hurt your kid and you're like, "Oh my gosh, could I get that email back? [00:26:44] Because I shouldn't have said that when I was so angry and hurt, you know, that kind of thing. So lots of practical things in there.
Then on the study there's videos from younger girls. It's not me. I try to find someone cool and hip and 20-something to walk through a really quick video. And there's always a visual. So they may be holding up in the one session they talk about clothing yourself. So the girl has on different hats and clothes.
I love the videos. Even if you don't want to do a small group, they're digitally available and you can just pull them up. And there's questions that come with it. Because I want them to hear from someone in a real short, kind of a short message, but kind of reframes their thinking.
And then the journal is more activities. Let's draw this. There's verses. There is coloring versus all kinds of cutie things in here.
Orange did a great job. I kind of set them up and then they made it really awesome. So I can say it's awesome.
Laura Dugger: That is fantastic. Even when it comes to podcasts, I know I love sharing podcast episodes with our daughters. And I wonder if other moms are even doing the same thing right now with theirs. [00:27:47] So it's helpful to kind of go further into those topics to see if Treasured study is a good next step for them.
Courtney DeFeo: I do think the questions are a key piece because.my natural bet... It's funny that I'm passionate about experiences over lecture, but my natural bet is to sit them down and tell them some wisdom, you know? And I have to constantly pry my fingers off of that too and say like, They are wiser than you think. Like when you ask them a question, what comes out of their mouth will completely surprise you. Like they have thought through a lot of the things you don't think they have.
So I even think at dinnertime with your whole family or even these bedtime things, even if you pick it up and just pick one question, it can start conversations where you'll see their heart and go, Man, they're really struggling with this or man, they really have a good grip on what... I mean, they can see right through it. Little girls are just stinking smart. They can see through all the stuff with friendships around the lunch table and they can see why it doesn't feel good.
And they can even have moments where you could say like, Hey, we're in this area of friendship. [00:28:48] Do you think you could be a better friend? So it's not just all the other kids, you know, hurting me. It's like, where could I say, Oh, I could be a better encourager. Oh, I could include people more often.
And so I think it kind of takes the... you know, when they're in trouble, we sit them down and tell them, here's the five things you did wrong and they're not learning because they're just embarrassed. And so I think these non-threatening moments with our daughters really help them open up in a way that we can affirm who they are, step into some hurts, and pray about it together. I just love it.
I didn't always do it well. I have to keep saying that. Like my kids would say, yeah, she hadn't put us to bed in a couple of years. But lately I've been going up there and scratching the racks again and not trying to miss those opportunities.
Laura Dugger: Well, I think that's incredibly helpful to zoom in even on a particular resource and get those practical applications. But then as we zoom out further, how can we disciple our children to be a friend of God?
Courtney DeFeo: I think... I don't know if I've done this well myself, but I do know that there's nothing more heartbreaking than when your daughter feels alone, or your son. It's hurt. [00:29:55] And it was like that mama bear comes out. There's things that you cannot control and they just are hurt.
I think in those moments, it's like teaching them that you feel so alone and it's not true. You have a family that loves you. You have a million friends, but they feel really alone sometimes and just saying like, you will actually never be alone. Like there is a someone that lives inside of you that knows your every thought. And just reminding them of that truth.
Now one lady at Orange told me this story and I just loved it. She said her daughter got in the car one day from the lunchroom and the lunchroom was just the worst. I mean, it's so painful. So she gets in the car, "No one sat with me at lunch." She's crying. And she said, "I went into this sermon about how God loves you and you're never alone." And she said, "I know all that. What do I do about the lunchroom?"
And so I was like, Man, that is it right there. Like we don't stop telling him the truth that they are never alone and God is with them. But there's some very real tween and teen things that they're like, "But what about this?" I think we have to engage in both, try to help them solve it practically, but never stop reminding them that they truly aren't alone. [00:30:55]
We use music a lot. I've noticed my girls, like when I don't know what to say, I'll just put on praise music and we'll just kind of sit in that, in the car. Or I've noticed Ella always turns it on when she's showering, when they're cleaning the room. And that is just truth that is just going in their hearts over and over again. It kind of helps them.
I've noticed it helps both of mine reset in a way. Like if I've told them to clean the room again, they're mad at me. Like don't just stomp around the room, put on some praise music and you'll all of a sudden have a different environment up there. So, yeah, I think just keeping to remind them, putting them around people that would remind them that Jesus is with them and sees them.
And then you can specifically pray. I don't think the Holy Spirit is something that's like 18 and up. I believe once they've invited God into their heart, the Holy Spirit can speak to them. And so pray that they'll recognize His voice and that they will feel really seen personally by Him so they're not always drafting off our faith, they're having their own experience. [00:31:51]
And they may be not mature enough to say like, Mom, God put this first in front of my head, but they're having those experiences. And just pray that God really almost repeats Himself so that they go, wow, God did see me in that. Or He did send the person to text me, or He did send data when I needed somebody or that kind of thing. I'm making it sound easier than it is, but I think it's a huge pillar of their faith to know that they are never alone and there's someone that personally can hold the entire world in His hands. And He can also know that, you know, Larson may be struggling with fear or whatever the personal thing is.
Laura Dugger: Well, and when you're speaking this, it reminds me of this scripture I came across. I remember it meant something different when I became a mom. It's in Ephesians 5. It's parts of 18 through 20. It says, "But be filled with the Holy Spirit and constantly guided by Him. Speak to one another in Psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, offering praise by singing and making melody with your heart to the Lord. [00:32:51] Always giving thanks to God the Father for all things in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ."
And I think you just illustrated that is such a great way. To disciple is even pointing them to praise music. It seems too good to be true.
Courtney DeFeo: They get in the car and say, "Mom, you won't believe this" and just say like, I don't know for sure, but that may have been God. Just like, you know, if they say something like, this is crazy this happened, to say, it might not have been coincidence. It might've been God trying to send you. And kind of getting their eyes used to looking for that.
I'll tell you this story that I just shared in the message this weekend. And it just blew me away. It's one of the most surreal encounters I've had with the Lord. And I tell my girls about this, and I'm like, "You're lucky. It's not just for me. He can do this stuff."
But it was on my birthday a couple of years ago. We've been here in Texas about seven years, but I just get homesick around my birthday. I'm like, "I want to be with my mom. I want to go see my sister." And so I get a little pouty every year. And I was sitting here feeling particularly frumpy because it was COVID. I'd gained some weight and I'm like, "Ooh. Like I'm going to for real pity party. [00:33:51]
I remember Sarah Haggerty, a friend of mine said, "You can just ask God, what do you think of me? And then write down whatever He says." And He's never spoken audibly to me, but He will put things in my heart. And I'm like, "Was that my heartburn? Did I just make that up?" I just heard Him say, not audibly, lovely. "You are lovely."
And that would have been quite the opposite of what I was feeling. I was believing some lies from the enemy that morning. And I just was on my porch and just said, "Lord, what do you think of me?" Which I think is such a great question our girls can ask to make sure they're hearing truth and not the enemy, just lying to them.
Fast forward about an hour or so, my friend neighbor texted me and said, "Hey, I put a little something on your porch for your birthday." And I was like, "Oh, someone remembered." And I go out there and there's... I don't even remember what she gave me. It could have been earrings, dish towel. But on the front was a card and I opened it and it said, "You are lovely." I mean, what? It was literally God's like, "I'm telling you, I'm trying to tell you you're lovely."
And I called Ashley crying, I said, "What? Oh my gosh." [00:34:50] And she said, "The crazy thing is I prayed that morning for God to use me in little ways, just to remind my friends how much God loves them. And I went to find your birthday card and I've had this card forever. And it's like it just jumped out of the box that it was for you. So I just put it on your porch."
I tell my girls that because it's like we all need that. We all need the Holy Spirit to enter into our day and say like, I see you and you are not a failure. You are not ugly. You are not just average or blah. Like I'm trying to think all the things they say. But you are lovely. So I have clung onto that.
And try to remember that that is available. Like you said, in Ephesians, it's available to us. We just need to be listening and pray that God will show Himself to our kids. Because it's possible.
Laura Dugger: Yeah. Your story brings tears to my eyes.
Courtney DeFeo: Isn't it really cool?
Laura Dugger: There's scripture that says He delights in every detail of our lives. That is beautiful.
Courtney DeFeo: It is so cool. So I say all of us ask today and don't feel afraid if it's like, well, I heard busy. Well, that's probably not Him. If it's convicting, that's okay. If it's condemning and telling you you're awful, it's not His voice. [00:35:58] And so I just say, Lord... just ask it over and over again, because I think that's not selfish. I think we just need to be reminded and kind of get this voices out.
And our kids have a very loud internal voice. And we need to teach them how to not just believe what Satan is spinning in their head or what their friends said. We can believe what friends say. And their friends get a really loud voice in their mind and their heads in middle school particularly. We just need to keep training them how to just deflect that in some way of like, that is not who you are. Maybe you had a bad day, maybe you were angry, but you are not a bad person. And just keep retraining and redirecting. Can I just say? This is so hard.
Like people that are acting like it's easy, it's not easy. Like it is hard to be intentional. And that's why I think we... I don't know how people do it without Jesus. Because you have four girls. I'm already exhausted with two. Like it will take the power of the Holy Spirit to parent these kids. And you won't get to the full list is what I'm realizing. [00:36:58] I have this mental checklist of all the things I need to teach them before they graduate and my husband's like, "It's not possible. It's not even possible to get to all the things like teach them how to change a flat tire, make sure they floss. All the practical and emotional things. You need the Lord for sure.
Laura Dugger: Who is someone you love who could use encouragement today? With that person in mind, will you think back to all The Savvy Sauce podcasts and articles available and choose one to share with them right now? Or if you want to love and encourage our team, we invite you to join Patreon. You can put your love of The Savvy Sauce into action by visiting TheSavvySauce.com, clicking on the Patreon tab, then following the prompts under "join Patreon here". We can't wait for you to have access to all the bonus features that we offer our patrons. Thanks for your support.
Courtney, I consider you to be a queen of resources. What are the other books and podcasts and resources that you turn to for parenting? [00:38:02]
Courtney DeFeo: I have a lot of friends in this space. So I will say on books, top of the list that just came to my mind, so I guess I should share in case the Lord wants to give this to somebody. Jeannie Cunnion is a dear friend of mine. We went to Auburn. But she has several books. Parenting the Wholehearted Child is a great one. Her first one. And then she's got a couple since then that some is about your child's faith.
And Don't Miss Out is basically what we've been talking about. Like don't miss out on the power of the Holy Spirit for you as a mom, but then also for your kids. So any of her books I would highly recommend have been great.
Then one just came to my mind this morning that has been a long time, but it's a part of Orange, but Kara Powell is a doctor and she wrote a book called Sticky Faith. This really piqued my interest because there is a huge percentage of kids that will walk away from their faith in the college years. They just get out of their parents' dictatorship and they're like, Well, now I'm going to do whatever I want.
She's a researcher. So she did research on what are the kids that stayed in their faith and didn't do it perfectly, but stayed connected to their faith, what were the common denominators? [00:39:04] I love data. I'm like, okay. And it's a short list. I remember not being condemned or overwhelmed going like, okay, I can do this. I can stay at these things. And just pray for them that they will stay around. So that one's a good one.
Then on podcast I love Heather McFadden. She has one called Don't Mom Alone. She is so, so grounded in the Lord. I love the way she interviews. There's hundreds of them. She's been doing it for years and years. So probably like 300 episodes. And they're real topical. So you can scroll through and find whatever the thing is that you're struggling with and you can pretty much find one.
I think her website even has a search engine where you could say like, you know, screaming toddlers or a marriage on the rocks while you're parenting. You can search some things on her site and they'll help. But I do like just her heart and knowing how she's going to reframe. Just like you're doing. We can talk all day about kids' behavior but are we rooting that conversation in Jesus? And she does that really well.
The next one podcast is called Birds on a Wire. Karen Stubbs. I love her. [00:40:05] I just wrote the forward for her new book. That's Survival Guide to Motherhood. And she has a great podcast similar to Heather's. It's called Birds on a Wire. And you can search also by topic.
I remember one time I was going in to have a confrontation with a couple middle school moms that our three daughters got in trouble and I really felt like I was supposed to kind of call us all out and circle the wagons on these girls. I just was about 10 minutes early and I pulled that up because I was like, "Lord, I need you, but I don't know how to phrase this in a way that won't offend these two moms." And she had a thing that was like approaching other parents when it's tricky or something like that. I just scrolled through and it left off the screen and I listened to it. And it was just like having a mentor right beside me.
Karen's been a mentor a long time, but I can't have coffee with her. She's in Atlanta, I'm here. If you don't have a mentor in your life, which I highly recommend, she's a virtual mentor. She's got grown kids. She's been through it all. She's super real. She's in touch with actually what's hard. And she's awesome. [00:41:09]
Laura Dugger: That is such a great list. I'll link to a few previous episodes. Karen has been a repeat guest and Jeannie came on to talk about the Holy Spirit and her book Don't Miss Out. So I second your opinions on all of those ladies that you recommend.
Courtney DeFeo: Oh. Good. Good. Good. Awesome.
Laura Dugger: And now just for fun, what are some of your favorite relationship-building activities to do with your daughters?
Courtney DeFeo: I think there's a lot. Like I said, I teeter on obsession with them. So I really love... and I will say in the teen years, don't believe the lie that's awful. I just think what you're... it's almost like what you're looking for. And I don't want to use that whole word manifest, but it's like God says we can set our minds on things. Like if you set your mind that you're going to enjoy your kids in the teen years, it is hard. Like it's emotionally... the technology is so hard to manage. It is emotionally hard.
But I wouldn't look back at someone in a two-year-old three-year-old phase and be like, "Oh, just get over it." It's physically draining. [00:42:09] Like having to stay awake and get these threads physically through this stuff is super draining. Just don't put the entire basket of teenage years is hard when it's real... look for the good. Like they're fun people. They're becoming their own humans. Their friends are hilarious. So I've tried to engage, but also I've told them upfront, like I will not be your best friend. I will be your friend, but I'm at the end of the day is my job to parent you, and you're not going to like some things. And I'm typically the disciplinarian. So they've been mad at me more than Ron, but there's some fun moments.
So a couple of those are we to travel together. And even if it's a day road trip or... we've gone some pretty cool places because of the airline perks. But we love seeing new places and try new restaurants. Obviously, with girls, they like all the things. My girls are super girly. So they like nails shopping, thrifting, coffee, all those little things.
Thrifting is one I didn't do growing up, but you can give them a budget of $10 or $20 and take them to a thrift store and they can find some really cool finds. So that's a less expensive one than going to like Lululemon or Anthropologie. Giving them some budgets like that. [00:43:14]
Ella loves music. She sings and does choir. But she got on a Harry Styles kick. And I'm not endorsing Harry Styles as a human being, but his music is fun. We've been to two concerts together and we've gotten some flack from some other Christians that are like, "Oooh." You know, just saying that he's not the best influence. But I know her heart. She's grounded in Jesus but she loves a good song. We had more fun at those concerts. Like I was squealing like a teenager, you know? It was so fun. Those have been fun for us.
Larson is my crafty girl. So any sort of get her hands in something, make something, paint something. So I've tried to make time for that with her. Or just supply it. You know, like say you're not... she's 13, but she will still get into some slime and she loves to make a mess. So when her friends come over, I have to bite my tongue and not say, Gross, I don't want any more slime and just let them be crappy. Sometimes I'll get involved with that.
The other one that I would highly recommend, and I'm a little biased because I'm on the board, but Lighthouse Family Retreat is a place where you can serve families with cancer. [00:44:20] And we do that about every other year. I'm telling you, it doesn't even matter if it's a mission trip locally, you know, internationally, or even in your own town. Like showing them what it feels like to use their gifts and just their presence for other people as a great way to spend time together. And you'll see the best of your kids come out.
I love who my family is at Lighthouse. It's like all the needs and the whininess is gone. And they're just zoning in on this family that's had a child walking through cancer, their siblings have been destroyed by it, the marriages are almost destroyed. And we get to basically help them have a great beach vacation. I've never seen my kids do laundry like this or clean up. I'm like, I didn't know you had these skills. And they are making sure this family has their floors swept and their food, the whole babies. It's really a powerful thing to watch. If you ask them, that would probably be top of their list of things they love together as a family.
Laura Dugger: Wow. What a creative and meaningful idea. You're just a fresh spring of ideas. [00:45:20] If we want to dive deeper into any of these topics that we covered today, where would you direct us after this conversation?
Courtney DeFeo: You can search my name and podcasts. I've done a lot of podcasts, but I did have one for a season called Treasured. And that has about a hundred episodes that I still fully support. I just got tired during COVID. I had a lot of migraines and some new diagnosis there, and I just took a break. And I haven't gone back yet. So you're one of the first podcasts I've done in a long time.
But I would say Treasured podcast probably has a lot about raising girls. That's probably it. And I'm on Instagram every now and then, but I'm not really consistently putting out content. But I try to use it as a place when God puts something on my heart, I'll try to specifically encourage people with whatever that thought is. So check me out there.
But just know like this all sounds good, but my kids are at an age where I can't throw them under the bus too often. It's their life. And so what you can see from people like me is like, Oh man, their life is perfect. [00:46:19] You know, we've had some rough goes and I just can't talk about it all the time. So just know you're normal. Don't give up. Keep being intentional. Every day is new. One foot in front of the other. And just really get good at apologizing. Because I do that more than anything. I'm like, "Guys, I was not nice yesterday. I am so sorry." If you interviewed my girls, they would be able to tell you a full load of things that have not gone well here. But I'm just an imperfect mom trying to follow Jesus and, and really steward these kids that I only have for just a little season.
Laura Dugger: Well, I think your transparency is very relatable. You may remember from last time we're called The Savvy Sauce because "savvy" is synonymous with practical knowledge. And so as my final question for you today, Courtney, what is your savvy sauce?
Courtney DeFeo: I do think because of the mom that I had and because of a certain wiring of mine, I love being a cheerleader and specifically for my kids and encouraging them very specifically. [00:47:20] Like I said, if someone had just called me on my birthday and said, you're so great, that would have been awesome. But because they were specific and followed the Lord's prompting, it hit so deep. I just think encouragement is biblical. Like He tells us to spur one another on in Hebrews and encourage them to encourage one another daily as long as it's called today.
I think it's not to say you can't discipline your kids, but they need reminders all the time that they're good, that they're kind, that they're worthy of being a great friend. And so just pray that God can peek into their hearts and see specifically where they're struggling. And you can call out whether it's physically like, Hey, I love your... you look so cute in those pants. Or Hey, I love the sister that you are. Like I see you Ella and how you protect her.
I mean, I wrote something on this recently on Instagram about their relationship. And it was a prayer that I had early on that they would be sisters that loved each other. And they have fought and it's unnerved me because I don't like... I want them to get along so bad. But watching their relationship develop over the years has been really sweet. And so I try to encourage that specifically and say, you know, Lars, I love how you gave her and her friends space. I was a little sister, I know what it's like to knock on the door and want to be included. [00:48:33]
So just really try to call out the things that they're doing well and not just nitpick all the things, which I am a nitpicker. I have to catch myself all the time and be like, all they've heard today is pick up your clothes. Oh my gosh. Why do you leave trash there? That tone is rude. There's time for direction, but I would say the majority of your mouth needs to be lifting them up and not inflating.
Like you don't want them to go on American Idol and have no voice and be like, my mom told me I was a great singer. You don't want to be projecting lies, but it's like you want them to feel seen and that they're good enough in your home. Because I do think in the Christian culture, this was convicted to me a few years ago, that they can feel like they have to earn their love. Like they have to be good enough to be loved by us and they have to be good enough to be loved by Jesus. And that is just false. And so anything we can do to counteract that. And I think encouragement is a huge piece of it.
You know, Ella texted me today about a GPA and a ranking, and I said, "Ella, this is not your identity. [00:49:32] I want you to try your best, but at the end of your life, you are not going to look back and be like, I'm so glad I was 12th percentile in my class. Like, who cares? You know what I mean? So just constantly redirecting them that they are enough. And it's tricky. It's tricky because I do see the trash on the floor and the gum on the side of the car seat and all the stuff.
That's the quick answer to savvy sauce. I would say knowing your kid, cheering them on, and having a heart of encouragement for them.
Laura Dugger: I love it. Courtney, you are always lovely and fun and uplifting. I really did enjoy hosting you. Thanks for being my returning guest today.
Courtney DeFeo: Thank you. Keep up the good work. I know so many moms are clinging to this when maybe they have a lonely season and they need a friend. So you're being a friend to so many. And it's going further and wider than you probably even know. So keep up the good work.
Laura Dugger: Goodness. Thank you for the encouragement.
One more thing before you go. Have you heard the term "gospel" before? [00:50:33] It simply means good news. And I want to share the best news with you. But it starts with the bad news. Every single one of us were born sinners and God is perfect and holy, so He cannot be in the presence of sin. Therefore, we're separated from Him.
This means there's absolutely no chance we can make it to heaven on our own. So for you and for me, it means we deserve death and we can never pay back the sacrifice we owe to be saved. We need a savior. But God loved us so much, He made a way for His only Son to willingly die in our place as the perfect substitute.
This gives us hope of life forever in right relationship with Him. That is good news. Jesus lived the perfect life we could never live and died in our place for our sin. This was God's plan to make a way to reconcile with us so that God can look at us and see Jesus. [00:51:34]
We can be covered and justified through the work Jesus finished if we choose to receive what He has done for us. Romans 10:9 says that if you confess with your mouth Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved.
So would you pray with me now? Heavenly, Father, thank You for sending Jesus to take our place. I pray someone today right now is touched and chooses to turn their life over to You. Will You clearly guide them and help them take their next step in faith to declare You as Lord of their life? We trust You to work and change their lives now for eternity. In Jesus name, we pray, amen.
If you prayed that prayer, you are declaring Him for me, so me for Him, you get the opportunity to live your life for Him.
At this podcast, we are called Savvy for a reason. We want to give you practical tools to implement the knowledge you have learned. So you're ready to get started? [00:52:35]
First, tell someone. Say it out loud. Get a Bible. The first day I made this decision my parents took me to Barnes and Noble to get the Quest NIV Bible and I love it. Start by reading the book of John.
Get connected locally, which basically means just tell someone who is part of the church in your community that you made a decision to follow Christ. I'm assuming they will be thrilled to talk with you about further steps such as going to church and getting connected to other believers to encourage you.
We want to celebrate with you too. So feel free to leave a comment for us if you made a decision for Christ. We also have show notes included where you can read Scripture that describes this process.
Finally, be encouraged. Luke 15:10 says, "In the same way, I tell you, there is rejoicing in the presence of the angels of God over one sinner who repents." The heavens are praising with you for your decision today. [00:53:34]
If you've already received this good news, I pray that you have someone else to share it with today. You are loved and I look forward to meeting you here next time.
Welcome to The Savvy Sauce
Practical chats for intentional living
A faith-based podcast and resources to help you grow closer to Jesus and others. Expect encouragement, surprises, and hope here. Each episode offers lively interviews with fascinating guests such as therapists, authors, non-profit founders, and business leaders.
They share their best practices and savvy tips we can replicate to make our daily life and relationships more enjoyable!
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