207. Cultivating Character in Our Children with Cynthia Yanof
Luke 16:10a (NLT) If you are faithful in little things, you will be faithful in large ones.
**Transcription Below**
Questions and Topics We Discuss:
As a working mom, what perspective and wisdom can you offer us parents?
What are a few core values or prayers that you find to be helpful as a parent?
Will you speak to the importance of independent play?
Cynthia Yanof is an author, blogger, and host of MESSmerized Podcast. She loves Jesus, her family, foster care, and having as many friends around her as possible. She is married to Mike, and together they have three kids ranging from college age all the way down to first grade. (No, that’s not a typo.)
She’s excited to introduce her debut book, Life is Messy, God is Good.. You can follow her on social media @CynthiaYanof, and the Pardon the Mess podcast is available on iTunes, Spotify, and all the usual places.
Cynthia strives to be authentic, vulnerable, and full of laughter as she encourages people on the messy roads of life.
Connect with Cynthia:
@cynthiayanof
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Gospel Scripture: (all NIV)
Romans 3:23 “for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,”
Romans 3:24 “and are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus.”
Romans 3:25 (a) “God presented him as a sacrifice of atonement, through faith in his blood.”
Hebrews 9:22 (b) “without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness.”
Romans 5:8 “But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us.”
Romans 5:11 “Not only is this so, but we also rejoice in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have now received reconciliation.”
John 3:16 “For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.”
Romans 10:9 “That if you confess with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.”
Luke 15:10 says “In the same way, I tell you, there is rejoicing in the presence of the angels of God over one sinner who repents.”
Romans 8:1 “Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus”
Ephesians 1:13–14 “And you also were included in Christ when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation. Having believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit, who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God’s possession- to the praise of his glory.”
Ephesians 1:15–23 “For this reason, ever since I heard about your faith in the Lord Jesus and your love for all the saints, I have not stopped giving thanks for you, remembering you in my prayers. I keep asking that the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the glorious Father, may give you the spirit of wisdom and revelation, so that you may know him better. I pray also that the eyes of your heart may be enlightened in order that you may know the hope to which he has called you, the riches of his glorious inheritance in the saints, and his incomparably great power for us who believe. That power is like the working of his mighty strength, which he exerted in Christ when he raised him from the dead and seated him at his right hand in the heavenly realms, far above all rule and authority, power and dominion, and every title that can be given, not only in the present age but also in the one to come. And God placed all things under his feet and appointed him to be head over everything for the church, which is his body, the fullness of him who fills everything in every way.”
Ephesians 2:8–10 “For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith – and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God – not by works, so that no one can boast. For we are God‘s workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do.“
Ephesians 2:13 “But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far away have been brought near through the blood of Christ.“
Philippians 1:6 “being confident of this, that he who began a good work in you will carry it on to completion until the day of Christ Jesus.”
**Transcription**
[00:00:00] <music>
Laura Dugger: Welcome to The Savvy Sauce, where we have practical chats for intentional living. I'm your host Laura Dugger, and I'm so glad you're here.
[00:00:18] <music>
Laura Dugger: The principles of honesty and integrity that Sam Leman founded his business on continue today, over 55 years later, at Sam Leman Chevrolet Eureka. Owned and operated by the Bertschi Family, Sam Leman in Eureka appreciates the support they've received from their customers all over central Illinois and beyond. Visit them today at LemanGM.com.
Cynthia Yanof is my guest today. She's an author, blogger, and at the time of our recording, she was the host of the Pardon the Mess podcast. But recently, she handed that over to Courtney DeFeo, who may sound familiar. She was also a previous guest on The Savvy Sauce.
Now, Cynthia is hosting the Mesmerized podcast. She and her husband, Mike, have kids ranging in age from college to elementary school, and she's going to share some of her parenting wisdom with us now. [00:01:19]
Here's our chat.
Welcome to The Savvy Sauce, Cynthia.
Cynthia Yanof: Well, thank you, Laura. I'm so glad to be here.
Laura Dugger: Will you just start by sharing a little bit more about your backstory so that we can all get to know you better first?
Cynthia Yanof: Sure. I mean, I could go back and back and back. But to keep everyone from being too bored, a long story short is I grew up in a really strong Christian home with a strong faith. I can't think of a time when I didn't know Jesus. I know that's a weird answer. I've been to so many different revivals and places where I felt like I was told, like, you have to know the exact moment. And I don't know if I know the exact moment. But I grew up in a faith tradition where we just weren't growing towards the Lord. So all of my life, that's what I've known.
I went to college and then went to law school, and I met my husband in law school. We dated seven years. Everyone, seven years. Small eternity, for sure. And then we married and have three kiddos now. [00:02:19] I have a daughter that's a sophomore in college. I have a son that's a sophomore in high school. And then I have a kindergartner. So there you have it. All the ages. All the things going on over here.
Laura Dugger: Goodness. And just to elaborate on that, I've heard you say before that your kindergartner, it started off with foster care when you met. Is that right?
Cynthia Yanof: Yes. Yes. So our kindergartner... and by the way, everyone just take a deep breath. I'm going to just make everyone feel comfortable in where you are in your parenting. We're at kindergarten 2.0. So this is round number two of kindergarten, because apparently I didn't feel the need to help him through the first round and we learned nothing. And so he's precious. He's just one of those that's going to need a little extra boost. So there you have it. This last year we had fun. This year we're going to learn.
And yes, his name is JB. And we were involved in foster care. Happy to always talk about that journey and the story. But the Lord just really spoke that into our hearts. [00:03:20] We never were adoption minded, really. We just went into foster care out of obedience, dragging our ever-living feet.
JB came to us. He was the very first placement we got. He was two months old. We were willing to take older kids and we got a baby and he never left. Like the Lord just literally... that was our child. He's been with us ever since. It was a rough and bumpy road of foster care. Many, many turns where we thought that he would be leaving, but that was just the Lord's goodness. And we adopted him right before he turned two.
Laura Dugger: Oh, goodness. Knowing some friends who are going through that process, that's relatively quick for adoption. But still, I mean, you think of two years. Were you foster parents first before you launched your podcast? Or which came first for you?
Cynthia Yanof: Well, it's interesting because I was a lawyer for several years. A mediocre lawyer at best. I always like to say it was just not where the Lord was calling me. [00:04:21] So having achievement syndrome and always needing to achieve.
I went to law school and had a good law firm job and just at some point, I'm like, "This is just not my... I just feel like there's more. I don't know what it is, but this is not..." Just that holy discontent if I can use church words. That feeling of like, huh, what is it you have for me, Lord?
And so sitting on like the 30th floor of a downtown Dallas law firm, looking out a window, I just kind of put my palms up and I'm like, "Okay, Lord, like I don't even know what this means, but whatever it is that you have for me, whatever you created me to do, that's where I want to be."
And just within, you know, six months to a year, we knew foster care. That was something the Lord wanted us to do. I ended up stopping my practice of law to be home and start working through the foster care process. And then just that faithful step of obedience, I feel like then the Lord opened this next door with a ministry that asked me to come work with them, which I was completely unqualified. [00:05:23] And in a lot of ways, probably overqualified for what I did.
And that led to writing and then podcasting and just Lord... just only things the Lord could open and close those doors and the things that He had for me. So, yeah, foster care was kind of that first diving-off point that led to all the other things that I now do.
Laura Dugger: Wow. Isn't that interesting just to even hear it so succinctly put where He’s blessed your obedience? And really you were faithful in the small things and then He gave you more to stewards. So that's an awesome story.
I'm remembering... was it something humorous for the way that you and your husband specifically met at law school or will you share that story with us too?
Cynthia Yanof: Yes. Yes. And I'm going to step back and say one thing and I'll tell you that. But yes, in terms of obedience. But I want to be very clear I'm about as normal and every day is anybody listening in terms of following God. Like on any given day I'm like, yes, I'm going to do this. And the next minute I'm like, "No, that's not in my plan. That seems hard. Foster care seems like that's what spiritual people do." [00:06:30] I'm not sure that's us. Not our thing."
And so we did take that step. Like we did what we were called to do. I went into it scared, like super scared of what it would do to our family, what would that mean for our biological kids, what would that mean for our marriage, our finances? I was scared going in. And I came out of foster care, scared of who we would be if we hadn't done it. Because you are changed people when you do the things the Lord calls you to do. And those very, very hardest places where the Lord changes you and changes your family.
I just like to say that it's hard and foster care is our story, but I think God has a story that He's writing in all of us. And if we will just take those next steps, whether it's with an obedient heart or you're just dragging your feet, like we were, the Lord is faithful in that.
That's off-subject from what you asked me, Laura, but I start with that. But to answer your question with my sweet husband, yes, we met in law school. I was walking in the parking lot and he catcalled me. Like that whew whew. [00:07:30] I can't whistle, but you know that catcall.
And I was like, "What just happened? Are we serious here? Because you know... I was like, whatever, how old are you when you get out of college? Like 20 or 21 or whatever and in law school. And I was real serious about myself at that point in life. I was like, "Here I go. Watch me, world. I'm at law school. I'm going to do this." When he catcalled me, I'm like, "I don't even know what to say of that."
So we kind of joke about it. My husband played college baseball and so in law school he'd just come off of that and had a lot of confidence. So we always laugh and he's like, "Well, it worked." I'm like, "Kind of." But yes, we dated through law school and then yeah, seven years and got married and here we are.
Laura Dugger: That's amazing. I've heard you say before that a mentor told you "live in such a way that God can bless your life". I just love that encouragement. So will you expound upon how you've applied this?
Cynthia Yanof: Yeah. You know, that was advice for many years. I'm like, "What does that even mean?" Sometimes people say things and, or I underline it in a book or I'm like, I take a sermon note on that. And I'm like, actually, I don't know what that means. How do I do that? [00:08:35]
I've just watched, and this is something I think Mike and I talked to our kids a lot about, but the Lord, we know scripturally like His eyes are roaming the earth looking for those who are fully devoted to Him. He's looking for people that are devoted to Him that are wanting to do the things that He wants to do that have kingdom purposes. But it's really hard for him to use us and do those things when we aren't devoted to Him, when we aren't living a life that He can bless.
That's not saying a perfect life. None of us are living a perfect life. But if we can't live in repentance and confession and, and just slowing down, asking the questions, surrounding ourselves by people who are following the Lord, surrounding ourselves by people who are pointing us back to Him. Those are the places where I think we've got to be intentional. And when we are, then I think the Lord can bless that.
So it's not this, like I've got to clean up my act in order for God to want to use me. I mean, gosh, can any of us clean up our act enough? No. But if we can step back and prioritize the things He prioritizes, family, loving people well, God's word, spending time with Him, doing those things, if we try to just take those next right steps, it's a game changer. [00:09:44] And in that, I think like you said earlier, He blesses obedience. The smallest step of obedience I feel like the Lord will bless.
Now here's the catch, right? Is His blessing what we call blessing always? No. I like blessing that looks like maybe accolades or recognition or whatever the world might call blessing. And really God's blessing is not, not typically that.
So I love those verses that talk about when the desires of your heart, and when you're pursuing God and Psalms talks about this, then He gives you the desires of your heart. And those desires change. And when you live a life God can bless, He will fill you with desires that he will give you. Like foster care. Like adoption. Like whatever those things are, whatever He's calling you into. And it's a game changer. So, yeah, living a life God can bless is as simple as just doing the things we all know to do, but just being faithful in those things that point us towards Jesus. [00:10:43]
Laura Dugger: You just had such a drastic career change. So let's zero in on your career first and then I'd love to ask you more about parenting eventually too. But you shared kind of how you came into podcasting, but how do you get such amazing guests? I'm thinking like Mark Batterson and what are a few of your all-time favorite lessons that your guests have taught you?
Cynthia Yanof: Oh my gosh. You know, I don't even know how we've gotten incredible guests. I don't even know how we podcast. You, Laura, even know from starting the one that we're taping right now, like I'm the least technologically savvy person you've ever met. And so it's just comical.
When I was in this ministry and they were talking about starting a podcast, they're like, "Do you want to do it?" I was like, "No, what would I possibly know about a podcast?" But I figured out pretty quickly that a podcast is like a deposition where you ask a lot of questions and you listen and then you ask follow-up questions. And I knew how to do a deposition because I had been a lawyer for so many years. So I was like, okay, "I can do that." [00:11:44]
And just a reminder that nothing's wasted with God. He can take even the places where... I definitely don't feel like I was in God's calling and my years as a lawyer. That doesn't mean I was outside of what He could use, but it was just funny that He took that. And I took so many depositions and now He uses that for podcasting.
So we fast forward. I remember like, how are we going to get guests? Who's this going to be? It didn't matter to me that they were super famous. I just wanted people that could speak truth. And over the years, the Lord has just allowed us to talk to everyone. Even this week I got to chat with Beth Moore and yes, Mark Batterson. He's one of my very favorites. And Priscilla Shire and Graham Lotz and I could go on and on. Just cool people.
To answer your question though, some of my favorites, people ask me that question a lot. I think Sally Lloyd-Jones was one of my favorites because she said something that really impacted me. She's an author, children's Bible, all kinds of things. [00:12:43] But she talked about success and our definition of success and making sure that we always define success by God's definition of success.
And I thought for me, for achievement-oriented person, that was just such a great word. Of course, I think it resonated with all the... people that will say podcast, but I thought, you know what? That's a good word, not only for myself but in my parenting. Like what is going to be success in our house? Are we defining it by what the world calls success or what I, as a mom, call success for my kids? Or am I lining that up with what God would call a success for my kids? And am I asking him to find success? That was one that's really stuck with me.
Another one. I got to interview David Green who founded Hobby Lobby and just hearing his background. I won't go into all of that. You know, raised poor and not good in school and all the things he did and how his parents were faithful in raising him in the small things. They had no idea he would be called the biblical billionaire one day. But they were faithful in the small things in parenting him, and look who he is now. [00:13:45] He was another favorite. And then can I give you one more Laura?
Laura Dugger: Oh, please do.
Cynthia Yanof: Okay. Then the third one, that's one of my very favorites ever. No one's ever heard of him, but he's been on my podcast a couple of times. His name is Darren Kinder. He lives in my area kind of close in Dallas and he worked for the Secret Service.
He was working Secret Service on 9/11 in New York City. He was a building over from the first tower that fell. You'll just have to listen to the story. He's in the process of writing books. So this is exciting too. So you can read about it.
But he just basically says that he ended up, they were that morning, the Secret Service and these clean suits getting ready to do their duties, and that first plane hit and they knew. So he and two other guys ran out and worked all day trying to just put out fires and help people.
At the end of the day, you can imagine what he looked like. He's like, you know, black and soot all over him and his shoes were burned onto his feet and he's bleeding. [00:14:47] And he goes back where the secret service was meeting and he walks in and he sees a room and two-thirds of the people in that room were still in those clean, perfect suits from the morning. And one of them seeing what he looked like, said like, "Where have you been?" And Darren Kinder said back to them, "No, you guys, where have you been?"
His testimony is just that like, "I'm not going to heaven with a clean suit, just not going to do it." And so he has really impacted me at this whole idea of like, we got to get dirty. We got to get out there. We've got to do the hard things in life. And we don't want to get to heaven in a clean suit. So I would say that's probably one of the most profound stories of faith that I've ever heard on my podcast. It's really changed me.
Laura Dugger: And now a brief message from our sponsor.
[00:15:33] <music>
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[00:16:54] <music>
Laura Dugger: With this work that we get to do, there are lots of books that we can read to prepare for interviews. So I'd love to hear some of your top, maybe your top five favorite books list.
Cynthia Yanof: Okay. I don't love to read. And I think it's because of law school. I think law school ruined me because it was so much reading and so intensive that it kind of stole the joy of reading to me. Now, because I podcast a lot, I read a lot to prepare for podcasts.
So instead of my five favorite books, I'm just going to tell you my favorite authors, because I read almost anything they have. And these are the ones that I don't have to really bear down and be like, come on, you need to read more. So here's my five favorite authors, pretty much.
Number one is Max Lucado. Anything he writes I love. He's been on Pardon the Mess, my podcast several times, and I just adore him.
Mark Batterson. It's funny you brought that up. Anything he writes, I love. I just find him to be just amazing. In a Pit with a Lion on a Snowy Day is one of his books. It's my very favorite and maybe impacted my faith. [00:18:03] Maybe one of the books, aside from the Bible, obviously the most has impacted my faith.
Number three, I'm getting a little shallower now, but I'm ready. Grisham. I love Grisham's stuff because it taps back into that law side of me. I don't endorse the theology always, but I do think he tells a great story and I love storytelling.
And then just for fun stuff, I love Melanie Shankle. She's hilarious. I just think she loves the Lord and she's got a funny way of putting things that we're all thinking.
And then the last one is actually a book. And I'm just saying this right now because it's a book that has impacted, again, my faith journey, and that is If You Want to Walk on Water, You've Got to Get Out of the Boat by Ortberg. That's just a specific book that I just reread when I was sick a couple weeks ago, but that whole idea of if you want to do the big things, you've got to get on the boat. And so what's your boat? And he talks a lot about how to figure out what are you hanging on to? What are you clinging to? What's your boat? Is it your finances? Is it your marriage? Is it popularity, status? [00:19:04]
So that's one that's really impacted me too. There you go on books, or maybe more accurately, authors I love.
Laura Dugger: That's awesome. What a great list. Thank you. You've planted some ideas for maybe some of my next reads. Cynthia, as a working mom, what perspective and wisdom can you offer to any of us parents listening?
Cynthia Yanof: Yeah. Well, you know, it's interesting. I'm going to be practical first, and then I'm going to give you a spiritual answer too. But I've worked full time as a mom, practicing law, doing some of that, and pretty big hours, pretty big responsibility. I've worked no time, like literally stayed home with my kids and not worked at all. And I've worked part-time. So I've kind of done every side of the gamut on working. I think it's very individual what works for you. And there's no guilt in whatever that looks like.
Some of us need to do it financially. And if that's where we are, that's great, then we're going to do it and do it well. [00:20:03] Some of us need to do it just because that's how we keep our sanity. And I figured that out about me. I'm not good if I don't work in some capacity, because then I start trying to micromanage my home in a way that's not healthy for anybody here. So working for me is a great outlet. I've just seen the Lord bless that. And I don't mean financially or numbers or platform or anything. I just bless the things that I've been involved with. And I've just been so grateful to see Him in the middle of that.
And just because what I do is faith-based, it doesn't need to be that for everyone. I've seen that in my husband's work. He's an attorney still. He also coaches and just the ministry the Lord's given him and that.
So I would just say, one, find what works for you and what works for your family and your finances, whatever, and then just live real well in that. Like, do it well and love the Lord in it. Grass is always greener. So I think I've learned that over the years. I've always thought, Oh, man, if I could only stay home. And then I stayed home like, Ooh, if I could only have a job and had some..." Just be content where the Lord has you. [00:21:05]
And then I would say, spiritually speaking, I heard Anne Graham Lotz speak one time, who's Billy Graham's daughter, and she said that as believers, just be faithful in your highest place of influence. If everybody would be faithful in their highest place of influence, then our world would be changed.
I would just encourage you, if your highest place of influence is at home with your kids, which is a great, huge place of influence, because again, we don't know who we're raising, then treat it as that and make it your job and do it the best of your ability and ask the Lord into that. If your highest place of influence is on the PTA board, well, that's great. I mean, love people well. Point people to the Lord in whatever ways you can appropriately do that. Stop conversations that don't need to happen and be about the things that God's about.
If your highest place of influence is your CPA or an attorney or whatever that may be, a teacher, and you've got all these lives that you're impacting each day, just do that well and ask the Lord, what does that look like? How can I do this better? [00:22:06] For the period of time you have me here, I want to be faithful in that highest place of influence. I think the rest takes care of itself after that. I think Anne Graham Lotz is right on that.
Laura Dugger: Goodness, I love it. I'm just soaking up all your wisdom. This is so great. What are a few core values or prayers that you find to be helpful as a parent?
Cynthia Yanof: Yeah, you know, it's interesting. I've been speaking a lot this year and I've been talking about the three lies to not believe in 2023. Three lies to get rid of in 2023. I think one of them is that I'm going to be judged by the success or failure of my kids. I think that's a lie. We believe that the success or failure of our kids determines kind of where we are in life.
I've realized that's a problem because who gets to define success and who gets to define failure, right? Like, are we going by the world standard or like we said earlier, like by God's standard? And I've learned having just sent a kid to college, what the world calls success means that you're good on paper. You're a great student. You're a great athlete. You've done all these things. [00:23:09] You've worked some… all these things.
And I look at all the expectations, even just getting a kid in college, what the world would say is success and I think about that and I'm like, Was I all those things growing up? Surely not. I wasn't a great student. I wasn't motivated. Sure wasn't a good athlete. Can barely walk today.
But then I look at failures and some of the things that would probably be perceived as a failure in the midst of those very failures is where I've seen God create me and my family and turn us into things He wants us to be, where we've seen him and known him in places that maybe a world would call failure.
Laura, can I tell a quick story about a failure with one of my kids?
Laura Dugger: Always.
Cynthia Yanof: Yeah. Thank you. My son, Brett, though, this last year played football and he was hoping to play more varsity and he ended up playing more JV than varsity football. Silly example, right? But he was discouraged and the car rides home got a little quieter. And by the end of the season, we were all done. Like we're over it.
At the end of the season, he felt like it was kind of a failure. [00:24:09] He's a sophomore and most of his friends got to play quite a bit of varsity and he would dress out and be up there ready to go and just didn't get called in. So the end of the year, awards banquet came, the ceremony and I was like, "Oh, do we really have to go? Like, have we not celebrated this enough? All these kids are awesome. I'm glad they've had a great year. But like, do we have to sit through this anymore?"
But my husband, thankfully, he's fabulous. And Mike's like, "No, you're going and you're going to be happy about it." So I went. And I even told a friend, I'm like, "Wake me up if I doze off." I was ridiculous. So we get there and at the end, they called out all the names. And they've watched the highlight videos. They've handed out all the awards. They say, "Hey, well, Brett Yanof, come up here." My son. And I'm thinking like, "Why is the varsity coach calling it my son? Like we got nothing to offer at the awards ceremony."
And he started talking about the scout team and he gave him this plaque. I don't know if you're familiar with the scout team, but basically the scout team, those are the kids that get the real team ready for battle. They learn all the plays of the other team. [00:25:08] They do the same blood, sweat, tears. They go through all the same endurance and trials and whatever but when Friday night comes, they're not on the field.
But as he's talking about this and he's giving my son this MVP of the scout team award, I realized in that moment that the coach knew something I needed to know. He was taking and naming a perceived failure, he was naming it a success. And what I couldn't see was that just because Brett's name wasn't called on loudspeaker doesn't mean his contribution didn't count. And just because he wasn't the head on the varsity or he didn't do the things that got recognition doesn't mean that he wasn't a part of the team, that it wasn't valued.
And what I think I've realized in parenting is just that we've got to be really careful letting success and failure be defined by things that the world is defining as success and failure. As parents, we got to be willing to step out there and say, listen, I'm going to start naming scout team in my house. And I'm going to say that even though my kid got a C on the test, he studied as hard as he could and that's okay. And just because my kiddo didn't get invited to the party that everybody's at, we're at home and they're learning character values on the couch with us and we're going to name that a success. [00:26:14]
And I would say in all those places where the world's going to call something a failure, where our kids are going to call something a failure, where I as a mom want to say, gosh, this looks like a failure, I'm going to start naming it scout team and I'm going to start naming it success because I know how God works and I know in the very midst of what the world would call a failure, he can call that a success. And He's turning us into, and he's turning my kids into people that He wants them to be. And if that comes at the cost of something that looks like it's a failure, then that's something we're going to be willing to take in this house.
I think that's one of the things in parenting that I'm really learning with my kids. Like I'm not going to be defined by success and failure and I'm not going to let my kids be defined by the world's version of success and failure, but I'm going to rename it.
Laura Dugger: And how many times do we get this backwards in parenting? It makes me think of the Bible that so often the lessons, especially that Jesus taught are so counterintuitive where we know He flips everything expected kind of upside down. [00:27:15] So do you have any specific Bible stories that have fueled your parenting?
Cynthia Yanof: I really like to think of all the Old Testament, I'm going to assess the Old Testament, but I like to think about Abraham and just a guy who... I mean, they were starting with infertility and the Lord said, "You're going to be a father of nations." Like, what does that even mean? What does that look like?
And so I studied that a lot. And I think like all the things that I can't see yet, God's already working in my heart. He's already calling me to these next steps to move, you know, pick up your family, go to the next place is what He said to Abraham. And He was faithful and He did. And he said, yes, like, yes. Okay, let's go and do it.
I think that impacts me. Really all the stories in the Old Testament. I think of Noah and building an ark before he really knew what rain was, but it was just a yes, maybe a hesitant yes, maybe a dragging his feet yes, but it was still a yes. And he did that and he did it well.
I go through story after story in the Old Testament. I think what I love the most about it is that you can see the full picture of what God was doing. [00:28:17] Even with David. I mean, he's out with the sheep when they come for the anointment. They're looking at all his brothers. He's not even invited to the beauty pageant. But he gets anointed and it's still years and years of him being chased by Saul and not getting that anointment.
But we see the end picture and we see now because we can look at the full picture of these people's stories. So the Abrahams, the Noahs, the Jonahs, all these people, we can see the full picture of what God was doing. You just trust Him in that small step. And I think that impacts me because the small stuff, one step of obedience at a time leads to the big things that God's doing. We may see it this side of eternity, we may not, but that doesn't mean it's not worthy.
And so I'm just encouraged I think. I would say when people ask me, like, you know, I'm discouraged or I don't know what God's doing, I'm like, Go read the Old Testament. Go find a person and learn all you can learn about that person. David's always a great one. I love David.
But go find out all you can about him and realize like you're in a segment of life where you're just seeing a little glimpse of the picture. [00:29:17] But you can go back and look at these people and you can see beginning to end their questions, their doubts, where it didn't make sense, why would God allow this to happen, and then you can see how it all plays out. I think that's important. And it encourages me.
And I just want to encourage your listeners that just realize that at any point in time, God could have put us on earth, right? From Adam and Eve all the way to the second coming. At any point, God could have chosen for us to be here on earth. And He could have chosen us to be in any families, any communities and any workplaces, right? But He chose us for now. This is our time in this place with these families, with these kids, with our neighbors, right? And if He did that, He's going to be faithful.
And it may not look like it in a minute. You may not understand it in the moment. You may not be able to see what He's doing. But if you can go back and just steal a little bit of the faith that you can see in the Old Testament, just take a little bit from that and say, okay, like, listen, Abraham didn't know what he was doing when he's picking up and moving, and Noah didn't know when he started building an arc, and David didn't really understand when he was anointed, but he's still hanging out with sheep. [00:30:15] Like they didn't understand, but we now know what God was doing towards His bigger purposes. Take that and put it into your life and know that God's just as intentional now. He's the same yesterday, today, and forever. And if that's the case, He's doing the same things in your life. It's going to look different. But He's still doing it. And that's important. So that would be my encouragement. I could point to you a thousand stories, but I would just say always for me, go to the Old Testament if you're really questioning it.
Laura Dugger: Who is someone you love? Who could use encouragement today? With that person in mind, will you think back to all The Savvy Sauce podcasts and articles available and choose one to share with them right now? Or if you want to love and encourage our team, we invite you to join Patreon. You can put your love of The Savvy Sauce into action by visiting TheSavvySauce.com, clicking on the Patreon tab, then following the prompts under "Join Patreon here". We can't wait for you to have access to all the bonus features that we offer our patrons. Thanks for your support. [00:31:18]
We're often told to spend more and more time with our children, but you add an interesting perspective on letting our kids also practice being alone so that someday they can stand alone. Will you speak to that and kind of the importance, even when they're younger, of independent play?
Cynthia Yanof: Yeah. I could say two things about that. I one time saw on social media a mom had posted a picture of her son at the meet at the poll day. You know, it's like the beginning of school where the Christian kids get together and come to the flagpole and they pray together.
And this mom had posted a picture a teacher sent her of her son standing by himself at the pole holding his Bible. Literally nobody there with him. But you could see in the background all these kids walking around and all this. And I saw that, I'm like, That's the kind of kids I want us to raise. It's like, how do you raise that kid that's going to go stand there by themselves and their faith?
Because we live in a culture that is so divided economically and politically and socially and racially. Like on every level we're so divided. [00:32:22] And so if we want kids that are going to stand up for their faith, it's getting harder and harder to do that in this country and all countries, but even in the United States where it would have been in the past, it's not popular to stand up for your faith and stand up for the Lord. So how do we raise these kids?
I feel like the Lord just laid out my heart over the years that like, if we want to raise kids that can stand alone, then we've got to let them. And so we can't be the parents that are going to run down to the school every time they don't get in the right class, or we're going to go talk to the coach because they didn't get enough play time or we're going to, whatever those things are. Throw another party to compete with the party they didn't get invited to. We're going to throw a better party. Like all the things that we're so tempted to do. We got to let them stand alone.
In terms of just letting them play alone and independent play when they're little, I think about a day when I took my youngest to the playground and I was just watching these moms and I'm like, Gosh, there's so much to learn from the playground. I wish I would have known. I wish somebody would have told me. [00:33:21]
And there's this mom who was like trying to get her kid to go play with everybody else, like all the other kids and he just wouldn't have it. He's playing by himself. And she was trying to get him back into the mix on the playground. And I get it, man. There's nothing that sends me reeling like taking my kids to a social event and I think they're going to be the next outcast because they're over by themselves. They're not engaging. And so I get what she was trying to do.
But in that moment, I just realized like, Listen, if we want kids that are going to stand alone, we got to let them. And sometimes that's just how the Lord creates them. And there's places where they've got to be able to do that. And independent play being by themselves, being comfortable by themselves, it's a good place to start.
So just practically speaking with my third kid, yeah. So we spend time even to do fun things. We do all that. But I'm just not going to live under the guilt of I'm not sitting down and doing pretend play all the time, or I don't have a playdate for every single Friday afternoon, or... Because he's learning to play alone and we're just going to set him up to stand alone. And do I think it's important to be social? Yes. I'm not against that, obviously.
I want him to have friends. [00:34:20] I want him to have Godly friends. That's why I pray over him. But at the same time, if we're going to raise kids who can stand alone in their faith and do the things they're called to do and go to things like foster care or whatever it is that maybe other people aren't doing around you, then let's start now by normalizing that and saying, it's okay. Like we're alone and that's okay. So that's my encouragement. Like if you want to raise kids who can stand alone, let them. And it's hard to do, man. I have to kick myself daily and be like, no, let them stand alone. It's okay. But it's worth it.
Laura Dugger: Well, and also in your situation, Cynthia, you do get to parent your youngest with that bit of an age gap from your older children. So I'd love to hear some lessons learned... both maybe a few examples of what you would go back and let go of when you were doing parenting round one and then also some specific things that you're so glad you did because now you're getting to see the fruit.
Cynthia Yanof: I think maybe one of the biggest examples I can give you is a way I didn't do it right. If I'm honest, which is most often what I talk about on my podcast, let me tell you another way I've gotten it wrong. [00:35:28] But here's one for me, I think.
I just had it in my mind how things were supposed to look for my kids. I think we all do. I think that's natural. Like this is how it's supposed to go. And so we're going to be, you know, good at this and we're going to be involved in that. I just had this in my mind. So the minute that it went off script, like I was derailed by that.
I use example a lot with my son, my poor high school son's getting picked on today. I do have other kids we can pick on by the way, but this is the one I'll tell the story about him. When he was in kindergarten I got a call from his kindergarten teacher that he was going to be put in the reading club. And I was like, The reading club? What's that?" And she's like, "Well, you know, it's for kids that are behind and they're not reading well and so we are trying to catch them up. So we're going to pull them out and he'll meet with a reading specialist each day."
And so you would think like, Laura, that's like, "Okay, no big deal." Like a normal parent, you guys would just get off the phone and be like, "Great." Not this mom. I got the phone and I was like, "Oh, this is it. This is like the phone call. This is the one where it starts the ball rolling. [00:36:27] He's not going to be successful in school. He's not going to make it through high school. He'll never get to college and he'll never have a job. I guess we just need to make him comfortable.
Literally I'm going down this path of insanity over the reading club. And the interesting thing about it is I was dreading it. I'm like, how am I going to tell him? Like I'm going to pick him up from school and tell him like, Hey, it's almost the end here. You know, bad things are coming your way. You're in a reading club. So I'm like going through these tears in my eyes, like a maniac.
And I get there and he comes bopping out of school. So happy. And he gets in the car and he's like, "Mom, best news ever. I got picked for the reading club today." And I was like, "Oh, tell me about that." And as he starts telling me, it's obvious the teachers talk to him. And he's like, "You know, I get to go with two or three of my friends from the class and we're all going to go meet with this..." the teacher's name. And he's like, "And everyone loves her. And she already met with us and said we can bring our own books and we get to miss the boring part of class." Like he was so excited.
And I couldn't help but think, Laura, I was like, well, thank goodness his teacher got to him before I got to him. [00:37:26] I was doom and gloom over here about this whole thing. But what I was hearing in that moment, nobody was saying it, but what I was hearing was that he's broken. Like he's broken. Like he can't do the things they're supposed to be. It isn't on script. And you know what I've learned is that... Now he's in high school. And by the way, he can read. He reads just fine. He does great.
But I learned in those moments that the Lord was actually going to start breaking him. And I'm going to tell you something with your audience and people listening and with kids, you will have learning differences. And this is one of those points where we realized there was something that we needed to be exploring. There was something in the learning. But what I found out is I felt like it was going to be the Lord. Well, I felt like the world was going to say he was broken, that he didn't meet expectations.
And what the Lord was actually doing was breaking him of pride and self-sufficiency. And he's made him the most kind and compassionate hardworking person you've ever met. I mean, everywhere he goes, people tell us how hardworking he is. Like there's no ego about him because he's had to work hard every day of his life in school. Just didn't come easily for him. [00:38:29]
And you know, the thing that scares me the most about that is given the opportunity, I would have taken all of what God was doing in his life, all that God's creating him to be. I would have stripped that from him because I didn't want him to have to walk a different road. I didn't want him to have the harder road. I would have taken all that away, but yet God was using that. And now I'm getting glimpses of that. That's who God's creating him to be hardworking, kind, empathetic to other people. Thank goodness.
And so I look at that and I would just say like, and parenting there's this big gap in my kids. And I look at my youngest now and I'm like, throw away the script. Like my youngest, I can already tell we're going to have some learning stuff to work through. And I don't know that he's going to have a million friends and maybe he's just gonna have a friend or two or three friends. And that's great. That's more than enough. There doesn't have to be a script on what it's supposed to look like.
And very often if we are trying to make them follow a script and we want them on the right select team and I'm air quoting, we want them in the right friend group, all those things, we're stripping away what God's doing in their life and what He has for them. [00:39:33]
I think I've just learned to sit back and let God do what He's going to do in their lives and pray. Oh my gosh, pray over your kids. And pray for yourself that you can step out of the places where you want to be right in the middle of it, manipulating, maneuvering it, all those places. And so I said, that's one of my biggest lessons I think I've learned that I would do differently.
In terms of something I would do the same, I guess I would say that is kind of stayed from the top to the bottom with my kids. My daughter who's in college now, she's hilarious. I mean, he's firstborn girl. Let's shout out to all of them, if you've got firstborn girls. I mean they can pretty much run a small nation. So I was real proud of her all along. She was easy. She fit the mold.
I would say what we did right with Kate, we over-parented her. That was wrong. But what we did right is we've always laughed. Like we've just made our house. We've tried to make it fun and humorous and low-key. We've stayed up late when we probably should be in bed and we've gone and gotten snow cones when you probably shouldn't have been doing that. [00:40:30] And like, we've just always tried to be fun and enjoy our kids and their company and like get rid of all the strict, you know, "well it's because I'm the parent". We just really tried to enjoy them. Are we disciplinarians? Yes. But we pick our battles.
Someone told me a long time ago, like, listen, if it's our personality, don't parent that, don't discipline that. Just when it's character. So that's what we've tried to do with her. We've laughed a lot.
And if there's character issues, like we are all on it, we dive in and we figure them out and we pray over them and we discipline them. For the rest of it when it's personality and it just bugs me and it's not things that are really going to impact the long term, then we let it go. And we just try to laugh and have fun.
We sit with our son now, you know, he's in high school and it's just fun. And then our youngest, I'm just having to learn to laugh, even though some things I like," Oh my gosh, this is driving me crazy." But I would say that's what I would do again. I'd say, keep doing, have fun, laugh at the small things.
If it's not going to matter in a year, then don't make it a huge deal today. So many battles that we fight, like it's just not going to matter in the long run. So let it go. [00:41:33] So those are my thoughts, as I like to say, as the oldest mom in the playground, raising a kindergartner again.
Laura Dugger: I've also heard you share something that's always stuck with me. You said in your home that you tried to build up what or who others are tearing down. So can you also give an example of that?
Cynthia Yanof: Yeah. I think part of it for me is just trying to teach our kids like you're going to be about something, right? Your home is going to be about something. So you might as well call it what you want it to be about and focus that. If not, it's going to be about things you don't want it to be about.
So for us, it was inclusiveness and bringing other people along and making room for others at our table. I mean that metaphorically and literally. But like I wanted our house to be a safe place and I wanted the kids that maybe weren't invited to other places to be able to come here or the kids that people are saying, "Ooh, they're a bad influence." Well, yeah, so are mine on any given day. Right? So I wanted this to be a place where there's a seat at the table for everyone. [00:42:32]
And so we were intentional on that in a lot of ways and telling our kids, like you need to include others and bring them along. In a lot of ways it just kind of happened. So I think maybe an example though, to answer your question recently of something that comes to mind is, and it wasn't in the last year or two, but my son... I was asking about a kid, a certain kid, and he's like, "I don't know. He's not really my people. It's kind of different." And I said, I mean, maybe he said strange. I don't remember. I'm not trying to put words into my son's mouth. But clearly it was not something he was super, super fond of... personally was fond of.
Finally, I had an opportunity to spend a little time with this kid, and I realized this kid's got some learning stuff going on, maybe some emotional stuff going on. Like I could just kind of tell. And so I went back and said to my son, I'm like, "You know what? I want you to get curious about people. Instead of just writing them off and saying like, you know, Oh, that's not my people, instead, why don't you get curious and figure it out?" And I said, "I think there's something going on with this kiddo. Let's be empathetic to that." So through that, my son has gotten to know him and really likes him. He just needed to dig a little bit deeper. [00:43:35]
I mean, that's just a silly example, but ways of just, you know, just trying to do the harder things with our kids, right? Do the hard and the right things. And I think it pays dividends. I think it does for our own families, but more importantly for other people that we need to be loving. If we're called to love our neighbors, let's do that, and let's do it intentionally.
I would encourage you, figure out what you want to be about. For us, inclusivity was important. We wanted to bring other people along. But whatever your thing is, just know what that is and kind of make it something that you're striving forward with your kids or family every day.
Laura Dugger: That just reminds me of one of my favorite quotes of yours. When you said, "Bring people in. The kindest, most gospel-driven thing you can do on a given day is to include other people to walk the road with them. That's what heaven will look like."
Cynthia Yanof: I mean, I think, gosh, it's just one of those things as you read it, I'm like, that's so good. Who said that? I mean, not to affirm myself, but like, right, isn't that the gospel? [00:44:35] And yet it's so hard to live out. Even having written that somewhere or said it or wherever you saw that, like every day I'm like, I have to remind myself. Because here's the deal. Like, I just want to be with my friends. I want to be with people that look like me and act like me and say the things that I say and affirm me and all those. That's great. But like, what about all the others that really... They really need us to love them well. And so how do we do that?
One of the hardest things you'll ever learn to do in parenting is to forgive the kids who hurt your kids. That's walking the road with them. That's inviting them in. That's saying, I realize that you have been really nasty to my kid or you didn't invite him to whatever, but we're still going to love you. And we're going to dig a little deeper and not get caught up in this whole, well, you know, there's just kids I don't want my kids around.
Well, I get that. Right. But I just feel like we've got a God that's big enough to overcome some of those influences. That's not to say that I invite everyone just to speak into my kids and beat into them. No, I'm protective. We have people surrounding our kids that are following the Lord. [00:45:35] But because we do that, we can allow others to be a part of what we do. So I would just encourage us all, I'm encouraging myself on any given day, you know, little things, birthday parties.
If your kid gives you 10 names, just say, "Listen, we have room for 15. Invite five kids that never would think they would be invited and have them over." Invite people over for dinner that are not your friends. Maybe the one that rubbed you wrong at the last football game or whatever it is. Get to know people, encourage them, bring them along.
I think that is sometimes, you know, we think we've got to do these huge things, but sometimes yeah, the most God-honoring thing we can do on any given day is just to love people well and include them.
Laura Dugger: And I just got goosebumps as you were sharing that as I often do, and I feel like it's kind of a conviction from the Lord, because that sounds like Jesus. You have so much more to offer. Where would you like to direct us to go after this conversation so that we can continue learning from you?
Cynthia Yanof: Well, you're sweet. You have so much to offer you guys. And I'm just so thankful to even have a chance to chat with you. [00:46:36]
If you want to catch up with me, follow me on social. It's under my name, Cynthia Yanof. You'll be so disappointed, but I want you to come anyway. There's nobody worse at social than me. And so there's that. But I would love for you to follow me. You can message me. I'll pray for you, pray for your family. If you have questions, I'll try to answer. I have a website, CynthiaYanof.com, but really catch me on social, Cynthia Yanof.
Laura Dugger: And as always, we will link to all of that in the show notes for today's episode. Cynthia, you may know we are called The Savvy Sauce because "savvy" is synonymous with practical knowledge. And so as my final question for you today, what is your savvy sauce?
Cynthia Yanof: Well, I love this question, Laura. This is like genius. It's funny because people have told me for years, they're like, "You need a question at the end of your podcast that you ask everyone. I've gotten a question and you're just so good. So I'm envious. But I was thinking about this and I love practical. Like you're saying these practical habits, something that can be replicated. [00:47:37]
I was really trying to think through that. And so on my desk sitting here, here's what I've got for you. I have these stones. Some are in the shape of a heart and some of them are just square. And one of them says "remember", and one of them says "love". And I collect these stones and I use them as stones of remembrance.
If you'll remember in the Old Testament, they use stones of remembrance. They would build an altar after the Lord did something specifically like crossed over a dry river, right? They would take these stones and build an altar so they'd never forget the amazing thing the Lord had done.
The stones of remembrance for me are my reminders of the things God has done. So what I do is I have some physical stones that represent things like the day that the judge ruled against all odds. He ruled in favor of JB becoming our son. I have a stone of remembrance of the date on it.
I have stones of remembrance that aren't actual stones. They're calendars. Like calendar reminders of things like, you know, when the Lord provided a job or when the Lord helped with a financial need of some sort, or He provided a ministry opportunity or these different things in a stone of remembrance. Yes. [00:48:45]
Sometimes I have literal stones and I love those, but there are also other things, whether that's a bookmark or something in my Bible that's written out, or like I said, a calendar reminder. But I think it's really important to remember, remember God's faithfulness because life is really hard and there are so many unknowns and there are so many things that come along that you're like, Oh my gosh, like what is Lord doing? Is He good? Is He for us? How can I believe the truth of the gospel when I'm living the realities of this world?
And all I can say is oftentimes to myself and to my kids, like, I don't know where God is in this. I don't know why He's not giving the miracle. I don't know why the prayer seems unanswered. But what I don't know about God is so small in comparison to what I do know about His goodness and his faithfulness. That it doesn't matter. And I've got these stones to remind me. So it's physical reminders of God's goodness. It's tangible. I can touch it and I can say, He has been good in the past, He doesn't change and He'll do it again. [00:49:45]
And so I encourage you just remember where God's good. Don't overlook it. Don't miss it. Can be small things, can be big things. You know, I gave some examples of bigger things. But there are small places where God has been faithful, where I've seen Him give me a heart for someone that's hurt me. And I write that down and I'm like, that's God's faithfulness because I wouldn't have done that on my own.
So find ways to remember where God's been good, where He's answered the prayers, where He's been faithful to your family, and then keep them handy and share them with your kids so they can remember that too. Nothing's taken for granted. Everything that is good is from the Lord. We know that. So make sure you talk about it. Make sure you represent it. Make sure that your family knows that all good things we have, all the things that we've needed the Lord's been faithful in it, and we'll celebrate that.
Laura Dugger: That is such a wonderful charge to each of us. Cynthia, I just love your encouragement and humility and sense of humor. [00:50:45] I'm drawn to all the wisdom you shared. So I just want to say thank you for being my guest.
Cynthia Yanof: Aw, thank you for having me. And thanks everyone for listening. I just hope you're encouraged. Again, I don't ever want to come from a place of expertise. I am walking the road with all of you, but hopefully it's something resonated. Laura and I prayed before we started the Lord to speak to each person individually. And I'll pray that again, when we're finished with the Lord to speak into your lives and just something... maybe something will catch and encourage you today. So thanks for having me.
Laura Dugger: Oh, it's truly my pleasure.
One more thing before you go. Have you heard the term "gospel" before? It simply means good news. And I want to share the best news with you. But it starts with the bad news. Every single one of us were born sinners and God is perfect and holy, so He cannot be in the presence of sin. Therefore, we're separated from Him.
This means there's absolutely no chance we can make it to heaven on our own. [00:51:46] So for you and for me, it means we deserve death and we can never pay back the sacrifice we owe to be saved. We need a savior. But God loved us so much, He made a way for His only Son to willingly die in our place as the perfect substitute.
This gives us hope of life forever in right relationship with Him. That is good news. Jesus lived the perfect life we could never live and died in our place for our sin. This was God's plan to make a way to reconcile with us so that God can look at us and see Jesus.
We can be covered and justified through the work Jesus finished if we choose to receive what He has done for us. Romans 10:9 says that if you confess with your mouth Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved.
So would you pray with me now? [00:52:45] Heavenly, Father, thank You for sending Jesus to take our place. I pray someone today right now is touched and chooses to turn their life over to You. Will You clearly guide them and help them take their next step in faith to declare You as Lord of their life? We trust You to work and change their lives now for eternity. In Jesus name, we pray, amen.
If you prayed that prayer, you are declaring Him for me, so me for Him, you get the opportunity to live your life for Him.
At this podcast, we are called Savvy for a reason. We want to give you practical tools to implement the knowledge you have learned. So you're ready to get started?
First, tell someone. Say it out loud. Get a Bible. The first day I made this decision my parents took me to Barnes and Noble to get the Quest NIV Bible and I love it. Start by reading the book of John.
Get connected locally, which basically means just tell someone who is part of the church in your community that you made a decision to follow Christ. [00:53:49] I'm assuming they will be thrilled to talk with you about further steps such as going to church and getting connected to other believers to encourage you.
We want to celebrate with you too. So feel free to leave a comment for us if you made a decision for Christ. We also have show notes included where you can read Scripture that describes this process.
Finally, be encouraged. Luke 15:10 says, "In the same way, I tell you, there is rejoicing in the presence of the angels of God over one sinner who repents." The heavens are praising with you for your decision today.
If you've already received this good news, I pray that you have someone else to share it with today. You are loved and I look forward to meeting you here next time.
Welcome to The Savvy Sauce
Practical chats for intentional living
A faith-based podcast and resources to help you grow closer to Jesus and others. Expect encouragement, surprises, and hope here. Each episode offers lively interviews with fascinating guests such as therapists, authors, non-profit founders, and business leaders.
They share their best practices and savvy tips we can replicate to make our daily life and relationships more enjoyable!
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