222. Pornography: Protecting Children, Personal Healing, Victory, and Recovery in Christ with Sam Black
Disclaimer: This podcast episode includes adult themes that are not intended for young ears.
James 5:16 (AMP) "Therefore, confess your sins to one another [your false steps, your offenses], and pray for one another, that you may be healed and restored. The heartfelt and persistent prayer of a righteous man (believer) can accomplish much [when put into action and made effective by God—it is dynamic and can have tremendous power]."
**Transcription Below**
Thank You to Our Sponsor: Thank You to Our Sponsor: Dream Seller Travel, Megan Rokey
Questions and Topics We Cover:
Are there any common denominators present in these men and women who struggle with pornography addiction?
Satan can make people feel like this stronghold will last forever, but what hope can you share with someone engaged in this battle right now?
What would be helpful for the church to understand, speak about, and offer as resources for healing and recovery?
Sam Black is a renowned author and expert in the field of pornography recovery. As the Director of Recovery Education at Covenant Eyes, he brings a wealth of experience to his work, having joined the organization in 2007 after a distinguished 18-year career as an award-winning journalist. Sam is the author of two groundbreaking books: "The Healing Church: What Churches Get Wrong About Pornography and How to Fix It" and "The Porn Circuit: Understand Your Brain and Break Porn Habits." He has also edited 16 other books on the impact of pornography and regularly speaks at parenting, leadership and men's events across the country. Sam's deep knowledge and compassionate approach have helped countless individuals and families find healing and hope.
The Victory App (Through Covenant Eyes)
Sam's Email Address: sam.black@covenanteyes.com
Other Episode Mentioned from The Savvy Sauce:
91 Technology and Parenting with Arlene Pellicane
Connect with The Savvy Sauce on our Website
Please help us out by sharing this episode with a friend, leaving a 5-star rating and review, and subscribing to this podcast!
Gospel Scripture: (all NIV)
Romans 3:23 “for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,”
Romans 3:24 “and are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus.”
Romans 3:25 (a) “God presented him as a sacrifice of atonement, through faith in his blood.”
Hebrews 9:22 (b) “without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness.”
Romans 5:8 “But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us.”
Romans 5:11 “Not only is this so, but we also rejoice in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have now received reconciliation.”
John 3:16 “For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.”
Romans 10:9 “That if you confess with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.”
Luke 15:10 says “In the same way, I tell you, there is rejoicing in the presence of the angels of God over one sinner who repents.”
Romans 8:1 “Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus”
Ephesians 1:13–14 “And you also were included in Christ when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation. Having believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit, who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God’s possession- to the praise of his glory.”
Ephesians 1:15–23 “For this reason, ever since I heard about your faith in the Lord Jesus and your love for all the saints, I have not stopped giving thanks for you, remembering you in my prayers. I keep asking that the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the glorious Father, may give you the spirit of wisdom and revelation, so that you may know him better. I pray also that the eyes of your heart may be enlightened in order that you may know the hope to which he has called you, the riches of his glorious inheritance in the saints, and his incomparably great power for us who believe. That power is like the working of his mighty strength, which he exerted in Christ when he raised him from the dead and seated him at his right hand in the heavenly realms, far above all rule and authority, power and dominion, and every title that can be given, not only in the present age but also in the one to come. And God placed all things under his feet and appointed him to be head over everything for the church, which is his body, the fullness of him who fills everything in every way.”
Ephesians 2:8–10 “For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith – and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God – not by works, so that no one can boast. For we are God‘s workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do.“
Ephesians 2:13 “But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far away have been brought near through the blood of Christ.“
Philippians 1:6 “being confident of this, that he who began a good work in you will carry it on to completion until the day of Christ Jesus.”
**Transcription**
[00:00:00] <music>
Laura Dugger: Welcome to The Savvy Sauce, where we have practical chats for intentional living. I'm your host Laura Dugger, and I'm so glad you're here.
[00:00:17] <music>
Laura Dugger: Today's message is not intended for little ears. We'll be discussing some adult themes, and I want you to be aware before you listen to this message.
Do you love to travel? If so, then let me introduce you to today's sponsor, Dream Seller Travel, a Christian-owned and operated travel agency. Check them out on Facebook or online at DreamSellerTravel.com.
Sam Black is my guest today. He is Director of Recovery Education at Covenant Eyes, and he's also the author of The Healing Church: What Churches Get Wrong about Pornography and How to Fix It, which is truly such an amazing book that I want to encourage everyone to add it to their list to read.
In our conversation today, we're going to cover many topics, including the common denominators present with people who struggle with pornography, practical ways to protect our children against the onslaught of pornography and its harmful effects, and hopeful ways people struggling with this issue can be victorious over this stronghold and live in freedom with Christ. [00:01:38] This is a beneficial conversation for every parent, spouse, and church leader. Here's our chat.
Welcome to The Savvy Sauce, Sam.
Sam Black: Laura, thank you so much for having me. We're going to have a great conversation.
Laura Dugger: Well, first off, I would love for you just to share your personal journey that led you to this work that you're doing today.
Sam Black: Oh man, that's a long story. But maybe the short part of this is over the past 16 years I've served at an organization called Covenant Eyes. Covenant Eyes creates, of course, software, accountability software, that helps people be more open about how they're using their devices. But also we provide a lot of education.
Over those years, I've heard so many people talk about a journey toward real and lasting freedom, but so often they said, "My church didn't help me very much." And I knew that that wasn't the right answer. [00:02:37] So I wrote The Healing Church: What Churches Get Wrong about Pornography and How to Fix It, so that we can equip churches with a better understanding of why people get stuck, why they often stay stuck without help, and how we can provide real and lasting freedom, but also healing for marriages and relationships.
So I traveled to churches across the United States that were doing this work well, interviewed more than 70 pastors and ministry leaders to help them press into this issue rather than finding it too taboo. And so we don't have to reinvent the wheel. We can look at churches who are doing this work well and learn from what they're doing and we can become a healing church.
Laura Dugger: I really can't sing your praises enough for this resource. It's not an easy read because it's a difficult topic and yet it is so important. And it left me wanting to share this with the elders at our church and to hopefully become one of those healing churches. [00:03:42]
But I love your stance, Sam, because you're not saying this in any condescending tone. You are very candid about your personal struggle with pornography in the past.
Sam Black: Well, I have found that my story is not unique. It's a common story. There's three components to how people get stuck with pornography. It is the early exposure to pornography, one. Number two, it's the ongoing use and repetition, especially in adolescence. And number three, some trauma or drama that's often happened early in life, but can happen elsewhere as well.
I was 10 years old when I first saw pornography. I remember coming out of my home in Florida and my brother and his friend were leaning up against their car looking at a magazine sideways. That didn't make any sense to me. How can you read sideways? And I asked what they were looking at and they turned it around. Even though I grew up in a Christian home, I was naturally curious and took a step forward. I didn't turn away. [00:04:44]
Now, I also had a friend and his dad had pornography that was just falling out of his closet. There were stacks of it. If you can imagine this normal closet with a shelf at the top and stacks of pornography that were leaning over and falling and there's a pile of it on the floor. It sort of looked like a waterfall. And I could take anything I wanted and I did.
But the third part of this component for me was even though I grew up in a Christian home, my father was a hypocritically violent person. He would rage a lot. I didn't realize it at the time that though pornography might have been provoking curiosity and interest, though it may have felt good, I had flipped it to escapism where I felt fear and frustration, and anger. I could run to pornography and then those triggers that would have me going to pornography would expand to things like boredom or frustration. [00:05:44] Or maybe I got bullied at school. Maybe I don't feel good about myself. Whatever those things were, I could run to pornography as a salve to anesthetize my emotions and to regulate my moods.
Laura Dugger: And I'm wondering how many people are connecting with various parts of your story right now. Let's even just go one step further. Let's lay the groundwork for this conversation. Can you define sexual addiction?
Sam Black: Well, let's look at something very simple. Regardless of where we can be addicted to substances or behaviors, things that have become repetitively and they're impacting us. And even when we say, no, I don't want to go there, I find myself doing it, even though I've said, "I'm tired of this. I don't want this in my life anymore. I'm over this. I promised myself, I promised God, I promised others I'm never going back."
And despite maybe some consequences or other things that are going on in my life, I continue to go back. That's, I think, a good layperson's description of pornography. [00:06:51] Despite your best decision-making, you can't seem to overcome what is so impactful for you.
Laura Dugger: And yet, even in your book, you talk about the hope that we'll continue to unpack. But I kind of want to circle back to what you were first connecting with your story, those three components. Because it relates to something that you write near the beginning on page six, where you say about two-thirds of Christian men and one-third of Christian women say they have an ongoing struggle as porn.
Sam Black: When you look at that a little deeper, when you break those numbers down a little bit further, 37% of men 18 to 30 say they're watching pornography daily. 36% of men of all ages, regardless of age, 36% say they're watching multiple times a week. And about 14% of women. [00:07:50]
You say, hey, what's some descriptor of addictive behavior? That's where I'm really focusing, that 37% and 36% and 14%. Those numbers are saying for many of those people, they're like, "I have promised myself, I've promised God, I promised others I'll never go back, and yet I still keep coming back."
You know that we talked about that early exposure and ongoing repetition. Well, I told you a complete story about the first time that I saw pornography. Remember coming out of my Florida home, etc. And because the way our neurology, way our brains are built, way God designed them, they recognize emotional on shocking and impactful experiences. And that's why whenever I talk to adults who saw pornography first as a child, almost all of them can tell me a complete story because it's so impactful on that young brain. [00:08:50]
Laura Dugger: And even that you say compulsive porn users were typically exposed early. That was a theme throughout your book. And I think that helps to usher in a little bit of compassion for an adult who is struggling with this. Typically, this isn't something that they sought out and we're pursuing. This was something that started early in childhood. Is that right?
Sam Black: That's right. Today, especially. Let's revisit this again about that early exposure. So dopamine kicks off. Dopamine loves novelty, something that's never seen before. In God's design, dopamine, when sexual cues are picked up, even though a child doesn't understand "what am I feeling", they often see pornography even before they understand the basics of sex. But nonetheless, they feel the sensations in their body that they don't really understand. And it can focus their attention to the point of tunnel vision.
Now, in God's design, that's beautiful. Sexual cues are picked up with your spouse and you're focused on your spouse, the rest of the world disappears. [00:09:53] God's design. Beautiful.
Pornography is not sex. It's a hijacking of what God created. And so when that child sees that, often today, it's very shocking, demeaning, violent, often video, etc. So that experience can be even more shocking and even more impactful on that young brain today.
Now, what plays with this memory as well is norepinephrine that's associated with fight or flight. So as a child is being shocked by what they're seeing as well, it's even further burning that memory into their brain. So then the ongoing repetition, the youth through adolescence, we actually build neural pathways in our brains. When we do activities over and over, it actually creates neural pathways in our brain that either seek out rewarding experiences or you may have tried to do something for the first time and it was hard. But you did it a few times and your brain learned how to do that. Right? It created a neural pathway to make that easier to do. [00:10:58]
Well, when things like pornography are producing dopamine and giving you a spritz of something that feels good, well, that even creates that neural pathway even more. And so people get stuck in what I call the porn rut. They become very sensitive to pornography. Doesn't take much to turn them on. In other words, they become desensitized to pornography, being that after they've seen it a few times, the brain says, "Hey, I've seen this before and I'm not going to give you as much dopamine for this image that you've repeatedly seen."
And so people find themselves going to chase the original high. They need a bigger dose. They need something more, more often or more violent, more demeaning or any number of things. So that desensitization. It's often said that pornography will take you places you never thought you'd go, do things you never thought you'd do, hurt people you never thought you'd hurt, pay a price you never thought you'd pay. That's where desensitization leads us. [00:12:00]
The final part of that is compulsiveness. That prefrontal cortex of the brain, which, by the way, doesn't fully develop until the late 20s. That's why we pay so much for our kids' car insurance. It is very hard for a young person to be making... their feeling brain, their excitement brain is very well developed. That's why kids can be very emotional.
But their prefrontal cortex, the decision-making, the executive functioning part of the brain isn't yet fully developed. So trying to just think that, without training, our kids will just simply look away, we're setting them up for failure in that way. So we need to help equip our kids.
Let me go back to that point. I'm sorry. That compulsiveness that we talked about, that prefrontal cortex of the brain is very weak. And it's decision-making when it comes to pornography. Maybe you do a great job of making other decisions. [00:13:00] But when sexual cues are picked up or pornography cues are picked up, you'd be very sensitive to it, you'd become desensitized to what you're seeing. And the compulsiveness to go after it is seemingly overwhelming for the individual.
Laura Dugger: Even as a parent, this is so sobering to hear the power of the brain that seems to be against us and then clearly our enemy, the devil, who wants to pounce on this and make it difficult. So I am going to insert just a little bit of good news that you write about on page 43. Again, I'm going to quote you where you write, "Being exposed to porn as a child doesn't produce porn addicts. This is most true of kids and families that communicate well and bond well. Parents also can train their kids to be resilient to porn."
Sam Black: That's right. That is the good news. [00:14:00] When we are equipping our kids, we can help make them more resilient to this. They know what's coming after them. And so when they see it, they go, "Oh, I know what that is. That's not for me. I'm going to turn, run and tell." We can really teach and equip our kids to do that.
I talk about that in the book, about how parents are doing that well, how churches are also equipping their parents because right where we are not instructing our parents, they don't really know what to do. So this is a great opportunity for the church, again, to step in and help protect the next generation.
You may have heard of the parable about a person is walking by the river and they see someone drowning and they reach out and they pull that person to shore. And then a few minutes later, they find somebody else struggling in the water and so they pull them out to safety.
And after a while, they figure out, you know, it's not enough just to build a hospital here where these people were dragging them out of the river. We need to go upstream and see who's pushing them in. [00:15:03] What's happening up front that people are falling into the river in the first place?
So we can equip and train our parents so they can equip and train their kids and disciple their kids so they can be resilient again to a culture that is often thrusting pornography at them.
Laura Dugger: Definitely. I even see in conversations with other moms I know with younger children, they worry, is this going to be robbing their innocence if we talk about these things? But my take is that God designed sex. And so it is beautiful and wonderful. It's innocent if it's kept within the boundaries that He made it for. So obviously being age-appropriate. But it seemed like we were in agreement.
In your book, you had another theme of being in conversation with our children. This is actually going to set them up well and protect them more so they're not seeking out this knowledge with Google or friends. [00:16:02]
Sam Black: I think it's worth taking a minute here and hitting the five myths of what parents often think about or five myths parents believe that really keep them from having these conversations. One is my kid is a good kid and they would never be curious about sex and would never look at pornography. They'd never be curious.
But I was curious. Every child is naturally curious about what the opposite sex looks like without clothes. Usually, it's common for children to see other children's bodies. And that's as far as the curiosity goes. We're just seeing other children's bodies. But when children see pornography, they're both seeing adult bodies, often shocking behavior, it's a totally different thing that's so impactful on that young brain.
Number two, if my child saw it, they just look away. We've missed the neurology behind why it can be so impactful on that young brain.
Number three, the measures I have in place are good enough. Typically this means occasionally looking over their shoulder to see what's on their screen. [00:17:04] And this isn't working. Over and over again, I hear parents say, "My kids first saw pornography on my watch, in my kitchen, in my living room, in my car." I remember talking to a mom saying that they were on her way to a state park and she handed over her phone because her son and his cousin wanted to see where they were going and grandma and mom are sitting in the front seat and hey, everybody's together. So no dangers here, right?
They look at the state park in the back seat and then the cousin says, "Hey, I dare you to look up this word." And that was the first time her 8-year-old son saw pornography in the back seat of her car. And I have heard that story repeated many, many times.
Number four, "Boys are the only ones who struggle. We don't have to worry about our girls." What I find is that this is just not true. Of course, I understated that by a bunch.
I remember a 15-year-old girl coming to the Covenant Eyes booth and saying, "Hey, I brought my dad here to sign up for Covenant Eyes because when I was 15, I heard some boys say some words that I didn't understand. [00:18:11] And so I asked my dad for his phone because he didn't allow me to have my own phone. And that's where I first saw pornography. I don't know why I couldn't stop clicking. Then I would intentionally go back to my mom and dad and ask them for their phones over the next two and a half years, intentionally seeking out pornography. Smart enough to hide what I was doing. Only by accident did my parents find out what was going on."
Number five, "If I talk to my child about pornography, they will become curious and search for it." What we find is if we do some good training with some good resources that are available, we can make our children more resilient.
Every professional in the sphere says the same thing. We can equip our kids with valuable information that helps them become more resilient versus leaving them on their own to make their own choices about this. They're just unequipped. [00:19:15]
Laura Dugger: That is so helpful, Sam. What I love about this conversation, I can see us just vacillating back and forth between the adult who's entrapped in this. And as parents, as we're learning more that this is so prevalent to begin in childhood, I think it's equipping us to know how to protect them.
A few more pieces that are likely to be present for when adults are going to struggle with this. So as children, you talk about if they are repeatedly and compulsively acting out on this behavior, using porn to medicate negative feelings, or if trauma and sexual abuse is involved. So can you share a little bit more about those as well?
Sam Black: Yeah. As adults, if we take a minute and look back, there's this thing called the addiction cycle. Our wounds in life have created a negative belief system. [00:20:14] Now, this negative belief system is often covered over with our careers and our hobbies and our sports and activities. But when we're alone, when we have self-doubt, when we have anger, we have equipped and trained our brains, our mind, body, and spirit that says, "Hey, I need relief. I need to escape this feeling.
So when negative emotions are picked up, we call that a trigger or what have you. I break triggers down into three areas. What I call See, S-E-E, See triggers, social, emotional, and environmental.
So a social trigger might be how you have engaged with others in any number of ways that maybe it's triggering as you're interacting with someone or maybe they are actually doing things that are inappropriate that could be triggering for you.
Environmental and emotional triggers. [00:21:16] I think we understand what those are as well. And those triggers say, hey, I need to either escape or I feel like I need relief from this and begins a preoccupation with fantasy, which often then leads to a ritual where you're seeking out pornography.
Once you act out with pornography, then there's this feeling of despair and toxic shame. And this shame says, "I promised myself, I promised God, I promised others I wouldn't go back down this path, and here I am again." And this shame is self-defeating. It's what I call self-hatred at my expense. A shame, self-hatred at my expense.
And that shame says, "I can never get this right. God's ideals for sex and my purity are unattainable. And it reinforces a negative belief system that says, see, I'm never going to get this right. My worth is not quite... I'm not quite up to par." [00:22:18]
And so after we wallow in that shame for a little while, we'll get back on track. It's like flipping a coin between perfectionism and shame. On one side, I'm always trying harder, working more, reading my scripture more, the Bible more, praying more, serving my family or my church more. That perfectionism can only last for so long and then that coin flips to shame and that wallowing in self-doubt, etc.
So we need to get out of the cycle. And we do that by having a safe place with a safe process. We need safety with one another. James 5:16 says, "Confess your sins to one another and pray for one another that you may be healed." That's a formula, right?
I don't mean to overemphasize formula part, but the confession is my part. My brothers in Christ who listen to me are hearing not only my confession of what I did, but they're asking me good questions. [00:23:24] They're asking me, "Well, what happened beforehand? And how did that make you feel? What were you thinking? What were you doing? What were you thinking of doing?
And then God allows that relationship and His grace and His Holy Spirit to come and do some mending on the deeper factors, the roots that lead me back to pornography.
Laura Dugger: Let's take a quick break to hear a message from our sponsor.
Sponsor: Do you have a bucket list of travel destinations? Or maybe you have a special event coming up like a big anniversary, a honeymoon, or even just that first trip to Europe? If so, you need to call Dream Seller Travel.
Dream Seller Travel is located in central Illinois, but works with clients all across the USA. Whether you're wanting to plan a large family get-together someplace tropical, or take a cruise with your family, or maybe you want to explore the history and culture of a European town, regardless of the trip, Dream Seller Travel is there to assist you with your planning needs. [00:24:25]
From the customized trip design and the ideas through the small details and the preparations before the trip, and even while traveling, Dream Seller Travel is there with you every step along the way, making it seamless and stress-free. Dream Seller Travel can work with your travel plans as you have laid them out, or they will customize a trip for your request. In most cases, there's absolutely no service fee for this work.
Instead of booking online and being the one to deal with your airline schedule changes, or the sudden change in country entry requirements, or the hotel that looks beautiful but is really under construction, call a professional. Let them deal with the problems that arise while traveling so you can just enjoy the trip.
Dream Seller Travel has been planning dream trips since 2005 to amazing destinations such as Alaska, Italy, Hawaii, Canada, the Caribbean, United Kingdom, Germany, Switzerland, France, South Africa, Iceland, and more. [00:25:29] Where do you dream of going?
You can reach out to the Dream Seller Travel at (3099 696-5890 or check them out online at DreamSellerTravel.com. Thanks for your sponsorship.
Laura Dugger: To give us a more compassionate stance towards someone struggling with pornography, while also being careful not to excuse it, will you elaborate on ways intimacy deficiency or lack of secure attachment is at play?
Sam Black: You know, there are many wounds. We often think of maybe the physical or emotional abuse, which is very impactful. Very impactful. Sexual abuse, definitely very impactful for people who are struggling.
But sometimes we have been wounded in ways... There's what we call wax and lax. The wax are things that have been done to us, and the lax are things that we should have received but didn't.[00:26:35]
Parental absence. You know, there's examples of children who've lost a parent. Maybe they've left. Maybe they died. Sometimes the impact of divorce can be very overwhelming, a disconnection. Maybe the child is blaming themselves for their parents being apart. But often divorce comes with wounding regardless.
You know, we live in a culture where often both parents have to work. And sometimes our value in life has often been arranged around how successful we are in our careers. Sometimes our kids have paid a price, or maybe you as a child have paid a price for that.
So these wounds are often not major trauma, but they're like the death of a thousand cuts. Little by little, this has impacted how you feel and think about yourself. [00:27:35]
Another very unexpected wound that is very impactful for people, especially who struggle with pornography. In fact, 77% of men who struggle with pornography, see they came from homes with rigid rules. Now, there's nothing wrong with saying, "These are the movies we watch. This is the music we listen to. These are the guardrails we're putting up in our life." That's good.
But when we live in homes with rigid rules where it's simply lines in the sand that we don't cross, and crossing them is simply met with shame, maybe anger, maybe even violence, then those rigid environments have big impact on those kids.
And so maybe they're looking for the loopholes to get through, but they know they can't talk with mom and dad about things that they might be struggling with, because that would just be met with more shame. So we need to be disciple-makers. [00:28:37] Discipline is about discipleship, about loving teaching, rather than simply lines in the sand that are met with very stringent backing.
Maybe you've experienced that, and you're listening and you're going, Man, I never realized that these are some of the things that I've experienced. Maybe there needs to be a little empathy for yourself to understand, okay, these are some ways I am struggling, and these are why I'm struggling.
But the good news is you don't have to stay there. You can learn to live in freedom.
Laura Dugger: Will you give us a taste of what that freedom can look like, and even personal stories where you've heard of breakthroughs for people who think they'll be trapped in this forever?
Sam Black: I often get this question from men and women who says, "Well, since I've developed this compulsive behavior or addiction to pornography, am I always going to be stuck?" [00:29:40] And the answer is no. You can live in freedom. You don't have to continue to have this ongoing fight. You can really grow. But it comes from community.
Now, we talked about before, James 5:16. But if we look at Galatians 6, about gently correcting, that we need the body of Christ. When we have a safe place, it's okay to come just as you are.
So often in the church today, we have this spectrum of safety. And on one side of the spectrum is it's okay to come just as you are. Everybody's got problems. Everybody's got faults. But you don't really have to deal with them because, you know, hey, you know, everybody's just got issues. You're never really called to change.
On the other side of the spectrum is it's not okay, especially for Christians to have any struggles in their life, especially a stronghold in their life, especially if they grew up in church. And it's not safe to come to talk about how you're struggling. [00:30:43] Because if you're struggling in that way, maybe you just don't belong with us. Maybe it's met with shame and… etc.
What we need to be as a church is that center place where it's okay to come as you are. But we love you too much, even as a fellow Christian, that you're struggling. But we love you too much to let you have to walk that journey by yourself. We're going to walk alongside you.
So a safe place and a safe process helps the individual to learn to understand how they're feeling. They become more aware, self-aware of all their emotions and their anger and how they react to it and all these other different aspects of their life.
And when they go through a healing process, that process is not just simply, hey, how are you doing today? No, there's some guidelines. There's some ways to things you need to work on. And so it's a more formal process. [00:31:44]
Then there's lots of resources like this. Let me give you a free one. It's called the Victory App by Covenant Eyes. There's more than almost 30 courses in there that walk you through: How did I get here? Why do I seem to stay stuck? How can I live in real freedom? Now you're beginning to understand how did I get here? And you're walking with someone else and doing that so that rather than leaning on your own willpower, you are growing in understanding, you're forming new habits, you are leaning on Christ. And you're doing that with a brother or sister in Christ.
Laura Dugger: I love that so much. I'm going to focus in on the word "process". It makes me think of progressive sanctification. There's such an art to this process because if you're trying to create safety in the church, if someone comes and confesses to you, "I wish I didn't struggle with this," and they share, I don't think it's most helpful to begin with, "Yes, this is a sin. [00:32:50] This is why you're wrong." And some condemnation where that is true, this is a sin, this is wrong. But what's your take on that with the process of starting there? Because to me, it seems like it shuts down vulnerability.
Sam Black: Right. We need that safety that sometimes we just need to get things out. We don't need that ally or friend or a group to give us all the answers or tell us what we're doing wrong. I do talk about in the book how the purity sermon isn't very effective for people who are struggling deeply with this because they already know they need to be pure. They wish they knew how. They really want to escape this.
And so a structured recovery process really allows someone to be discipled well. It's an opportunity for deep discipleship. I had to recognize that I built my own cage. Brick by brick and bar by bar. And I locked the door and threw away the key. And by the way, nobody keeps the key. [00:33:58]
So I needed others to come into my life and help me unlock the door and show me to walk me out because left to my own willpower, left my own patterns of behavior. I want to go back to what was familiar. If I felt fear or anger, frustration, sadness, whatever, then I want to anesthetize those emotions, regulate that mood in the way that I've learned to do so well over so many years.
But when I got in a safe group, now I could understand. I can actually stop and think about: how am I feeling? What's going on? What's leading to that emotion? How can I sit with that emotion? All those kinds of things.
I know that sounds so simple, but it's very hard for most adults to do. We use a lot of things, just food and shopping and alcohol or drugs or pornography or other things. These are simply means to help cope with something in our lives that feels very uncomfortable. [00:35:03]
How can we begin learning to sit with those emotions? How do we recognize our triggers when they come? I tell a story about my own life. This will sound sad for many of your listeners. And listen, I can tell the story because I've processed it with others and I get to come out on either side more whole. But I think it provides a good example of how the process with fellow believers can renew the mind, body, and spirit.
All right. When I was 12 years old, I was helping my dad in our shed and there was a rope that was coiled up or a mess, I should say, on the shed floor. And this rope beforehand had been the back of our pickup in Florida and had been rained on and sunshined on. In Florida, it rains and rains every day at about five o'clock and then the sun comes back out. So this rope had been baked into a mess.
My dad said, "Hey, I want you to pick up that rope and to coil it." And so I put it in one hand and began wrapping it around my elbow, hand to elbow, hand to elbow. And he goes, "No, no, no, I don't want you to do it that way. I want you to do it hand over hand." I said, "Okay." [00:36:15] I've never done that before. And when I would try to do it hand over hand, this messy rope would twist or turn. And so it wouldn't be the perfect loop.
So when it would twist or turn, my dad would hit me in the head or the back or the face and he would tell me I was stupid and I couldn't get anything right and I was dummy. I would panic and then go back to coiling that rope over my elbow and hand and hit some more.
So when I became a teenager and an adult, whenever I picked up a rope or extension cord or whatever else to coil it, I would go back to that 12-year-old boy. Now, I didn't recognize it at the time that I would likely look at pornography that day to anesthetize those emotions, to escape from those feelings, because I wouldn't just go back in time and remember that. I literally went back in time and felt like I was there again. [00:37:23]
So how does a safe process and a safe place, safe people help me make different choices? Well, as I began to process that memory with others, I also became equipped to, that whatever I coiled a rope, I could do something different.
And as I was doing it hand over hand, I would say, "How deep the Father's love for us." So I would sing and keep a beat to coiling that rope, I could lean on the Holy Spirit in my life to create renewal. I didn't have to go back in time and relive that emotion. I could recognize that, hey, this was triggering for me, that I am not there anymore, that I did not deserve those wounds, and that my Heavenly Father loves me deeply.
Now I can react totally different. Now I'm empowered by others to end a new mind frame, to react differently. [00:38:28] I can live in the present, not live in the past wounds. I can lean on my Father in Heaven and He is there for me. I can experience His healing in my life.
Laura Dugger: Wow. Sam, and when you share that story, especially when you started singing, tears come to my eyes. You were offering not only a sacrifice of praise, but God didn't create us as a vacuum where this empty space just exists. You are choosing to very practically fill it with our Good Father. I appreciate you sharing that journey to healing.
As we've talked so much about the root of this and where a lot of this comes from, but I'm thinking of the families who are encountering this message, and if they've read your book, they could see this theme that Christian men and women who are compulsively engaging with pornography oftentimes are still in denial that they have an addiction. [00:39:37] So how can someone recognize if this is a problem in their life?
Sam Black: I think one of the first things we need to do is think about what does Jesus say about pornography? Because He's very clear that if you look at another and objectify them, then you are committing adultery. That's very clear in scripture.
First, we need to have Christ's standard in our life. But number two, not to treat His grace so cheaply. That we want to be like Christ, to follow Christ, like Paul says, as I follow Christ, follow me. We have a model to hold up. We have said to ourselves or to a spouse or to others that I don't want to do this anymore or that I promise I won't do this anymore? How has it impacted your relationships? How is it impacting your relationship with your heavenly father? [00:40:40]
There is a number of studies that have been done and all these studies come to the same conclusion that there is a direct correlation between pornography use and increased religious doubts, less time in prayer and scripture, reduced church attendance. In fact, they found the direct correlation between pornography use and whether someone will serve in their church over the next six years. Are all these things impacting you?
And so, if you can't stop viewing pornography for 30 days, then maybe you might say, Wow, I do have some struggle. If it's occupying your thoughts in those 30 days, sometimes people white knuckle it, just try harder for a period of time and they just fight. But they are nonetheless fighting hard to keep this out of their life for just 30 days.
And if that's your struggle, then maybe there's some need to think more deeply about the wounds and the hurts, the impact of having watched pornography through adolescence, etc., maybe being exposed as a child. [00:41:49] So all these things are impacting you, then you might say, hey, I'm really struggling.
I think there's some ways you can begin thinking about this more deeply. Again, I mentioned that free app from Covenant Eyes called the Victory app. You can download it from any of your app stores. The Victory app by Covenant Eyes, again, helps you understand: How did I get here, why do I seem to stay here, and how can I live in freedom?
Laura Dugger: Are there any common warning signs to alert us to our spouse being addicted as well?
Sam Black: I'll talk about this in The Healing Church as well. By the way, you can download the first chapter of The Healing Church at thehealingchurch.com. So often we compartmentalize our lives.
Sometimes it is very difficult if they're working very hard at hiding it. But often if it's been found in the past, things that are appearing on your smart TV, or wait, we didn't think we watched that kind of thing, or that's very sexually edgy, or there's other streaming services that are coming on, or whatever it is. [00:43:04] If you've seen it happen a couple of times already, then likely it's happening more than you think, because people are pretty good at hiding their tracks.
They've become hiders over time, especially for those who are struggling. They've been hiding their pornography use for some time, and if it's coming out, it's probably even more so than you suspect.
Laura Dugger: I want to take a moment to say thank you. You are the reason our team gets to delight in this work, and we appreciate each of you so very much. If you're benefiting from the lessons learned and applied from The Savvy Sauce, would you take a minute to rate and review us on Apple Podcasts?
Five-star ratings and reviews help us reach more people around the globe, and that promotes our goal of sharing joy. So join us in that endeavor with your valuable feedback. Thanks again for being here with us.
I think that Satan can make people feel like this is a stronghold that will last forever. [00:44:07] But what practical hope can you share with someone who is engaged in this battle right now?
Sam Black: Paul talks about the renewing of the mind. What modern neurology teaches us is that, indeed, we can be renewed from a neurological level as well. It's called neuroplasticity, and simply means that the brain is more plastic than it is ceramic.
It used to be thought, though, when you got to a certain age, that's just the way you were. You were stuck no matter what happened. You can't teach an old dog new tricks.
What neuroplasticity teaches us is that we can exchange behaviors that we don't want for behaviors we do want. We can create new neural pathways that are rewarding, exciting, fun, enjoyable. We don't have to stay stuck in our old patterns.
It's like a path in the woods. When you first went down that path, it became hard. There was lots of grass, trees in the way, shrubbery, and you got cleared that out. [00:45:07] And the more you walked it, the easier it became, the wider the path became.
Well, that is true as well. When you begin ignoring that path, stop going down that path, well, the grass begins to grow over, the shrubbery comes back. And in favor of new neural pathways that lead to healthy and rewarding, exciting behaviors.
As I mentor other men, I often ask them, what are you doing for fun? Often those who are struggling most deeply are often workaholics. They live, sometimes, lives of deprivation. They're not doing your... I don't... that sounds strange, but they work so hard. They do so much. When they want to seek out pornography, they're like, "Well, I've just deprived myself of so much. I deserve this. I need this."
What we need to do is stop living a life of deprivation and one of God's joy. [00:46:10] God designed us for pleasure and enjoyment in our lives. There, we have the feelings of touch and sight and sound.
We have a great eBook at Covenant Eyes called Hobbies and Habits. And the whole idea is that you're exchanging negative behaviors for positive and joyful behaviors that God designed you for in the first place.
Laura Dugger: Yes. I love that you say that God designed you for in the first place, because it makes me think back to a previous episode with Arlene Pellicane. She talks about dopamine, which you've alluded to earlier in this episode, where we can wear out our pleasure center and the brain demands more and more and more dopamine that's not sustainable. And then we crash. And usually, that's one thing that can lead to depression.
But then there's serotonin that is endlessly available and healthy for us. And we can experience some of those same feelings, those pleasures but that comes from getting enough sleep and, I believe, connecting with community and eating nutritious meals. [00:47:18]
Sam Black: Yes. All of those are important in the recovery process, too.
Laura Dugger: Yes. So to lean into God's good design, like you're saying. Sam, what would be helpful for the church to understand and to speak about and to offer as resources for healing and recovery?
Sam Black: For pastors and ministry leaders listening, I just want to encourage you to press into this issue, one, and understand a little more about the issue at hand. That's what I did. That's why I created The Healing Church.
It's a primer to help pastors and ministry leaders better understand how do people get stuck, why they often stay stuck, and how can they live in freedom, and more importantly, how the church can step into that.
What's been so encouraging is—I'm just thinking of the past couple of weeks—pastors have been inviting me to their churches and speaking to their congregations. I just went to a five-campus church in South Carolina, spoke at both morning services. [00:48:23] So that now the pastor is saying, "Hey, we recognize that this is an issue. We're not going to hide from it anymore. And we're willing to press in. We also want to offer you help and support."
What was so interesting that after the end of my first session, they had 146 men and women sign up for their small groups to find real help and support and freedom from this.
When we take away all the taboo and we start leaning in and having good conversations about this issue, because the world certainly isn't scared to talk about it. So we can begin having these conversations in the church and do it well.
I was just at a church in Texas. They did the same thing for their congregation where they said, "Hey, we recognize that pornography is impactful on our families, on our children. We can talk about this in healthy ways that aren't shaming and that are empowering and lead to life change." We're a church that cares about people. We want to see them live a life of restoration and freedom. [00:49:32]
And so that's one of the first things we, you know, sort of things we can do. Probably one of the easiest things that we can do is have a parents' training safety night where we're talking about the impact of pornography on children.
Well, when we understand how our children today are being impacted, well, all those parents and adults, they understand that, Oh, that's exactly how I was impacted. And so it begins taking away some of the fear and shame around the issue. We need to stop living lives of fear and shame because God knows all of our sin already. He is not fearful of our shame. He wants to see us live in His wholeness and freedom.
Laura Dugger: Well, I love how you respond to that, Sam. A few more things that I found throughout your book, just talking about sharing our stories and how powerful that is in church and really getting back to the heart of repentance, which is turning from sin by turning to God. [00:50:34] So you give us a lot of hope and a lot of practicality.
But will you also just share the vision you have for redeemed healers and for the church if they start stepping into this opportunity to become a healing church?
Sam Black: You know, I told you a little bit earlier about the surveys and studies that were done by both Christian universities and secular universities about how pornography is so impactful on religious doubts and prayer life and volunteerism in the church.
What I discovered as I traveled the country visiting churches that were doing this work well is they were reversing all of that. They had increased church attendance, especially among those who had been struggling, who had been going through a safe process. Those people had stronger faith. They had greater wholeness in their life.
You know, you can stop doing a habit and still be a jerk, right? We don't want that. We want people to live in greater wholeness in their relationships with their spouse, with their kids, with their church, with their community, with one another. [00:51:42] And overwhelmingly, people who had gone through a safe place and a safe process were excited to give back because you give away the freedom you've received.
So pastors on a regular basis at these churches were saying, "Sam, you've got to understand, I don't do more now because we do this work. I do less." Because having discipled people through a difficult and stronghold, they come out on the other side wanting to give that freedom to others. And they're saying, "Pastor, you need to volunteer for that. I can do that. Hey, you will need some help with doing that. I can do that. You need help discipling this person, I can be there for that."
So those pastors were excited about how they had turned people who were in misery into mentors. God can turn all their misery into ministry.
That's what the exciting part about all of this work is, is people become more self-aware, more spiritually aware. [00:52:47] They find healing for their wounds, and then they want to give back. They are dangerous to the status quo. Having had an awakening, they pursue others, and they give away the hope they've received.
Laura Dugger: And that is certainly something you have done. If anyone wants to follow up after this conversation, where would you direct us online to continue learning from you?
Sam Black: You can learn more about The Healing Church: What Churches Get Wrong about Pornography and How to Fix It at thehealingchurch.com. You can also send me an email directly to me at sam.black@covenanteyes.com. Again, that's sam.black@covenanteyes.com.
Laura Dugger: Wonderful. We will link to all of that in the show notes for today's episode. We are called The Savvy Sauce because "savvy" is synonymous with practical knowledge. So as my final question for you today, Sam, what is your savvy sauce? [00:53:46]
Sam Black: My savvy sauce is not to live alone, but live in community. So often we become isolated in things that we struggle with. We don't want to let anyone else know about.
But I'm making it as part of my living and life to have others in my life, to meet with on a regular basis, to practice some James 5:16, and to grow a little bit in my own awareness and recognizing I'm not perfect. But living with others so that I can be just a little more self-aware and grow a little bit more.
Laura Dugger: Well, Sam, you are such a knowledgeable and gentle mentor. I'm so grateful for your resource and for your time today. You're such a respectable man, and I just want to say thank you for being my guest.
Sam Black: Oh, you're so kind. Thank you for having me. What a joy it's been to share this. [00:54:46] I hope all your listeners found it valuable today.
Laura Dugger: I believe they will. Thank you.
One more thing before you go. Have you heard the term "gospel" before? It simply means good news. And I want to share the best news with you. But it starts with the bad news. Every single one of us were born sinners, but Christ desires to rescue us from our sin, which is something we cannot do for ourselves.
This means there is absolutely no chance we can make it to heaven on our own. So, for you and for me, it means we deserve death and we can never pay back the sacrifice we owe to be saved. We need a Savior.
But God loved us so much, He made a way for His only Son to willingly die in our place as the perfect substitute. This gives us hope of life forever in right relationship with Him. That is good news.
Jesus lived the perfect life we could never live and died in our place for our sin. [00:55:51] This was God's plan to make a way to reconcile with us so that God can look at us and see Jesus. We can be covered and justified through the work Jesus finished if we choose to receive what He has done for us.
Romans 10:9 says that if you confess with your mouth Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved.
So would you pray with me now? Heavenly Father, thank You for sending Jesus to take our place. I pray someone today right now is touched and chooses to turn their life over to You. Will You clearly guide them and help them take their next step in faith to declare You as Lord of their life? We trust You to work and change lives now for eternity. In Jesus' name we pray. Amen.
If you prayed that prayer, you are declaring Him for me, so me for Him. You get the opportunity to live your life for Him. [00:56:51] And at this podcast, we're called The Savvy Sauce for a reason. We want to give you practical tools to implement the knowledge you have learned. So you ready to get started?
First, tell someone. Say it out loud. Get a Bible. The first day I made this decision, my parents took me to Barnes & Noble and let me choose my own Bible. I selected the Quest NIV Bible, and I love it. You can start by reading the Book of John.
Also, get connected locally, which just means tell someone who's a part of a church in your community that you made a decision to follow Christ. I'm assuming they will be thrilled to talk with you about further steps, such as going to church and getting connected to other believers to encourage you.
We want to celebrate with you too, so feel free to leave a comment for us here if you did make a decision to follow Christ. We also have show notes included where you can read Scripture that describes this process.
Finally, be encouraged. Luke 15:10 says, "In the same way, I tell you, there is rejoicing in the presence of the angels of God over one sinner who repents." [00:57:56] The heavens are praising with you for your decision today.
If you've already received this good news, I pray that you have someone else to share it with today. You are loved and I look forward to meeting you here next time.
Welcome to The Savvy Sauce
Practical chats for intentional living
A faith-based podcast and resources to help you grow closer to Jesus and others. Expect encouragement, surprises, and hope here. Each episode offers lively interviews with fascinating guests such as therapists, authors, non-profit founders, and business leaders.
They share their best practices and savvy tips we can replicate to make our daily life and relationships more enjoyable!
Related Episodes
