234. Stories Series: Redemption From Sexual Sin in Marriage with Garrett and Brenna Naufel
*DISCLAIMER* This episode includes adult content and is not intended for young ears.
**Transcription Below**
1 John 1:7 (NIV) "But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus, his Son, purifies us from all sin."
Questions and Topics We Discuss:
Will you tell us how you two met Jesus?
What significant event happened next?
What were some ways God spoke to each of you throughout your healing process?
Garrett Naufel is a Midwest guy who grew up amongst the cornfields and coal mines of central Illinois. He loves the outdoors, hiking and challenging theological reads. He has served in full-time vocational ministry for 22 years, operating in pastoral roles for the majority of the time, and has navigated heartbreak, hope, life, death, failed church plants and the unveiling of the goodness of Jesus throughout this time. Garrett currently serves as the Discipleship Pastor at Open Bible Baptist Church in Colorado Springs. He has been married to the love of his life for 25 years and has two amazing kiddos (as well as 5 babies in heaven).
Brenna Naufel is a pastor's wife who committed adultery, a mother to two children here on Earth, and five babies in heaven. But, most of all, she knows she is a beloved, precious, cherished, and sweetly forgiven daughter of God. Besides being passionate about sharing God's scandalous love and redeeming grace, Brenna also loves chocolate, games, Sci-Fi movies, and ping pong. And, of course, Jesus and her amazing family! She is the author of From Lover to Beloved - Experience God's hope, healing, and forgiveness after committing adultery. She resides in Colorado Springs, CO with her husband of 25 years and her two beautiful children.
Connect with Brenna on Instagram @brennanaufel
Thank You to Our Sponsor: WinShape Marriage
Other Episode Mentioned from The Savvy Sauce:
Additional Episodes on Similar Topics from The Savvy Sauce:
Anatomy of an Affair with Dave Carder
Supernatural Restoration Story with Bob and Audrey Meisner
Pornography Healing for Spouses with Geremy Keeton
Sexual Sin Recovery for You and Your Spouse (Part Two)
Patreon 28 Re-Release: Protecting Your Marriage Against Unfaithfulness with Dave Carder
Connect with The Savvy Sauce through Our Website
Gospel Scripture: (all NIV)
Romans 3:23 “for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,”
Romans 3:24 “and are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus.”
Romans 3:25 (a) “God presented him as a sacrifice of atonement, through faith in his blood.”
Hebrews 9:22 (b) “without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness.”
Romans 5:8 “But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us.”
Romans 5:11 “Not only is this so, but we also rejoice in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have now received reconciliation.”
John 3:16 “For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.”
Romans 10:9 “That if you confess with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.”
Luke 15:10 says “In the same way, I tell you, there is rejoicing in the presence of the angels of God over one sinner who repents.”
Romans 8:1 “Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus”
Ephesians 1:13–14 “And you also were included in Christ when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation. Having believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit, who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God’s possession- to the praise of his glory.”
Ephesians 1:15–23 “For this reason, ever since I heard about your faith in the Lord Jesus and your love for all the saints, I have not stopped giving thanks for you, remembering you in my prayers. I keep asking that the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the glorious Father, may give you the spirit of wisdom and revelation, so that you may know him better. I pray also that the eyes of your heart may be enlightened in order that you may know the hope to which he has called you, the riches of his glorious inheritance in the saints, and his incomparably great power for us who believe. That power is like the working of his mighty strength, which he exerted in Christ when he raised him from the dead and seated him at his right hand in the heavenly realms, far above all rule and authority, power and dominion, and every title that can be given, not only in the present age but also in the one to come. And God placed all things under his feet and appointed him to be head over everything for the church, which is his body, the fullness of him who fills everything in every way.”
Ephesians 2:8–10 “For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith – and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God – not by works, so that no one can boast. For we are God‘s workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do.“
Ephesians 2:13 “But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far away have been brought near through the blood of Christ.“
Philippians 1:6 “being confident of this, that he who began a good work in you will carry it on to completion until the day of Christ Jesus.”
**Transcription**
[00:00:00] <music>
Laura Dugger: Welcome to The Savvy Sauce, where we have practical chats for intentional living. I'm your host Laura Dugger, and I'm so glad you're here.
[00:00:18] <music>
Laura Dugger: I am thrilled to introduce you to our sponsor, Winshape Marriage. Their weekend retreats will strengthen your marriage, and you will enjoy this gorgeous setting, delicious food, and quality time with your spouse. To find out more, visit them online at Winshapemarriage.org. Thanks for your sponsorship.
Today's message is not intended for little ears. We'll be discussing some adult themes, and I want you to be aware before you listen to this message.
Garrett and Brenna Naufel are my guests today. Garrett is a pastor in Colorado, and Brenna is an author. We were introduced through a mutual friend, Allie Bennett.
Allie and I met through church, and she told me about Garrett and Brenna, who were actually her college ministry leaders years ago in a different state. [00:01:20] Garrett and Brenna have such an incredible redemption story, and I'm so grateful they're willing to share it with us now.
Here's our chat.
Welcome to The Savvy Sauce, Garrett and Brenna.
Brenna Naufel: Thanks so much for having us. We're excited to be here.
Garrett Naufel: Yeah, thank you very much.
Laura Dugger: Let's begin here. Will you tell us how both of you met Jesus?
Garrett Naufel: Sure, yeah. I really began to encounter Jesus and the gospel more explicitly in college. I kind of grew up around church and a little farm/coal mining town in Illinois prior to that. But yeah, it was in college, really the latter part of college, that I really began to significantly understand the gospel. And it was probably about junior year when the realization dawned on me that, Hey, I'm not a Christian, but I want to know Jesus, and I want to follow Jesus, and I desperately need Jesus. And it was there that He met with me and rescued me. [00:02:20] So yeah, it was late in college when I came to know Jesus.
It was a pretty clear and radical experience for me, as far as understanding my depravity and need and the graciousness of God to come for me and with me.
Brenna Naufel: For me, I would say kind of my journey began after my parents divorced. When I was 8 years old. My dad had an affair, my parents got divorced, and so our lives were flipped upside down. There was a lot of hurt there that you don't quite understand when you're eight years old and growing up from then on out.
But there was certainly this hole that I felt in my heart and didn't quite know how to fill it. My mom had started going to church after the divorce, and she became a believer. So I did grow up in church for the most part at that time and certainly was trying to understand the gospel.
I probably heard it a million times before it finally clicked for me. I went to a Bible camp for a week out of the summer of, I'd say, between my sophomore and junior year in high school. [00:03:27] So again, when I was 16, I gave my life to Christ at that time.
Even at that time, I remember somebody sharing, you know, some of you will be called in a ministry, and even some of you might be called to be a pastor's wife. I felt that wholeheartedly at the time that I would become a pastor's wife. I certainly didn't live that way as far as dating relationships and things always right after that but God certainly did get a hold of my heart.
But it was easy for me to kind of put Him on the back burner for relationships and things, too, as I was growing in my faith. But that's how we both came to know Jesus.
Laura Dugger: The two of you went on to meet each other at a summer leadership program, and you were both sensing that God was leading you to one another for marriage. Actually, within a year of that initial meeting, you were married. But you two soon discovered marriage was harder than either of you had anticipated. And you were trusting that God had brought you together. So that's what made it kind of confusing, and you didn't expect such difficulties to arise in marriage. [00:04:33]
Will you share what significant event happened about three years into marriage, when you were being considered to go on staff at a church in Missouri?
Garrett Naufel: As we were getting ready to do that, to make that transition and move, and went through all the interview process and stuff, I was wrapping up my job, which was in the dot-com world at that time, right before the bubble burst. Right as it was bursting. We were transitioning and I was at work one day, benignly just went to Google-search something, nothing illicit or anything like that, and up popped some pornography on the screen.
I was pretty naive to the internet at that point. I mean, I knew how to use it, but I'd been exposed to pornography at a very early age. I think I was 7 years old the first time I was exposed to it. But it had not been a struggle in my life, even as an unbeliever, for various reasons. [00:05:35] But at that point, I was hooked almost immediately to that. So that began really an 8-year on-and-off battle with internet pornography.
And what I now realize and didn't realize at the time, is there was a large portion of me that had even correlated sex with not just pleasure, but with relief and an escape and a salve, if you will, for stress, difficulty, things like that. So I really gave myself over to that at that point.
Brenna Naufel: And you didn't share it with me.
Garrett Naufel: No, yeah, yeah. I definitely was struggling. I shared with a few people that were not Brenna. I got varying degrees of counsel, most of which wasn't very good or very biblical. One guy in particular basically just said, it's not going to help anything to share this with your wife. You need to just figure this out. [00:06:36]
I tried that, I think, partly because I hoped it worked, partly because of the shame and fear I had around coming into the light, particularly with Brenna about that. And so, yeah, that was an eight-year ongoing, like I said, kind of a binge and purge type of situation in my life.
And I don't mean to downplay it in any way. It was, at points in my life, very consuming of me emotionally, spiritually. It was clearly a hidden thing. Yeah, it was really broken and really, really dishonoring of the Lord and of my wife and of our ministry. I mean, really, in every aspect, it was a wicked, wretched thing.
Laura Dugger: Well, Garrett, I appreciate you being willing to share this part of your story, even as it is difficult. But so many people struggle with this. I even think back, we recently did an episode with Sam Black of Covenant Eyes. I'll link to that in the show notes. [00:07:37]
But he talks about the early childhood exposure and then also using pornography to medicate and how it can medicate your emotions in a really negative and turning destructive way. But I'm also curious, you said even prior to knowing Christ, it was never a struggle for various reasons. Can you pinpoint any specific reasons why it wasn't a struggle before?
Garrett Naufel: Yeah. So I'm older. I'm a child of the 80s. And so pre-internet. So I didn't really have the opportunity to be exposed to internet pornography really until... You know, college would have been the earliest. Not everybody had a computer in their home and things like that growing up. And so some of it was just accessibility.
You know, had it been as accessible as it is now when I was a kid, I probably would have struggled. I think that's part of God's grace to me, even as an unbeliever, was that it just wasn't as easy to get a hold of. [00:08:37]
I think another reason was just shame. Even as an unbeliever, I had a strong sense of shame, strong sense of guilt. I think a lot of what probably kept me from that was just like, you know, when I was growing up, I would have had to have gone into a store and bought something or rented something. And just the fact that someone would have known was too much for my conscience.
Like, I remember guys in college who I was buddies with who would go to the video store and rent stuff. And I was just like, "I couldn't do that." I just had such a strong sense of shame that it just was, I couldn't overcome that. But once it was, you know... I think it was just kind of the perfect storm. My weakness and maturity, brokenness, and the opportunity all came together in that moment back in 2001. And I did not have the fortitude or the conviction or the depth of relationship with Jesus to flee from sin, but I did not do it.
You know, the reality is I was responsible for it. The Lord had provided a way out for me in that temptation, I did not take it. [00:09:49] But I hadn't dealt with Jesus, the mess that was still in my heart. So when that medication presented itself, I very foolishly, but willingly took part in it.
Laura Dugger: One other piece, Garret, are you a firstborn?
Garrett Naufel: I am. I'm the oldest. Yeah, there's two of us and I'm the oldest of the two.
Laura Dugger: Okay. Even the... not that this always pertains to a firstborn, but that shame and guilt and kind of high sensitivity to those things, I can see there's a lot of pressure on firstborns. And I wonder if a lot of people listening, especially who are firstborns, relate to that.
But Brenna, I'm also curious for you at this point. So this eight-year struggle, this is into marriage. Were you experiencing anything differently with Garrett? And even intimacy-wise, did you notice an impact on your relationship?
Brenna Naufel: Yeah, that's a great question. [00:10:48] I definitely felt an emotional distance from Garrett that I couldn't quite pinpoint. Or I didn't understand, you know, because I would ask him at times, like, "I feel like you're really far. I feel like there's something between you and God. There's something between us."
So I think I felt that strongly at some times. And other times we just kind of went about our lives and I kind of just let it go, if that makes sense. But I definitely started to feel an emotional distance from Garrett. And that certainly impacted things.
I think intimacy-wise, that's just always been a struggle for me regardless. So I don't know if I noticed it impacting that area. It's just an area that I've struggled in personally, I think, kind of similar to Garrett in a sense where I equated that with... so I had a couple of sexual relationships prior to our marriage and I had equated that with being loved and feeling wanted and all those kinds of things. [00:11:51]
So in a twisted, weird sense, I think when we got married and I felt completely loved and wanted by Garrett just because of being me and for who he is. Then sometimes the sexual intimacy didn't... it was harder to come by in a sense because I felt those things in other ways and I was still equating it with something very broken. So I didn't notice it in that regard, but certainly emotionally, I think I felt that and had wondered about it even spiritually.
Garrett Naufel: Yeah, you made that clear.
Brenna Naufel: Yeah. So, as Garrett mentioned, we decided to go on staff with the ministry and move to Missouri. And we did that and it was honestly a very lonely time. That time that we had moved here was meant for Garrett to raise financial support so he could be fully funded to be in college ministry. So we weren't really getting plugged into our new church or with new friends and we had just uprooted and left, honestly, some of the best friends that at least I had had growing up. [00:12:56]
I was a military brat. I went to four different high schools. Like I didn't have a real kind of solid sense of just friendship and community. But I did have that in Texas. It was the first time I kind of felt like at home in a sense. And we had just left those things. And so we're kind of left on our own.
You know, Garrett's in the midst of this struggle and I'm starting to basically not spend time with the Lord like I had been, you know, because we're not in this community. But I'm also personally not spending time with the Lord.
Naively again, thinking I can just... I've had all these amazing experiences with God. Like I know who He is and I know I'm loved and, you know, just kind of trying to coast if you will. That eventually then led to me not really taking my thoughts captive.
So I began a secret struggle, I would say probably about five years or so into our marriage of honestly fantasizing about men pursuing me, not even anything sexual, nothing physical. [00:14:02] Like in my mind, I would stop it. You know, if I'm thinking about those things from anything going too far, if you will, but certainly the idea of being pursued and wanted in that way, I would let my mind wander there, which eventually... because I'm not confessing that and I'm entertaining those thoughts. That eventually led into real-life flirtations.
This is like over the course of at least a year or all of this is very, very slowly progressing and the slippery slope that I'm going down. So it led to real-life flirtations up to the point where I was alone with a man at a business event and he kissed me. And that is, again, in my mind where I'd never, ever would have let things go. I was strong enough to stop things. But when that happens, it just kind of fulfilled all those other feelings that I had been entertaining and playing with in my heart.
Like Garrett said earlier, he was kind of hooked. That was Satan's hook in me, right? He caught me by the lip and I was there. [00:15:02] That kiss then led into a five-year-long affair. So the last five years of Garrett's struggle with pornography was also me hiding this incredible secret sin of adultery. And so we're just living very separate lives, but also not understanding what's going on in each other's hearts and this distance that we're feeling and all the things.
Laura Dugger: Also at this time were children in the picture?
Garrett Naufel: No, we didn't have any children at that time. I think that was part of God's mercy to us is that we didn't at that time have children who would have to experience all of what was going on and what would occur. You know, they're both pretty young still, but we recognize in our planning for the days that come where we will discuss God's work in our lives and through this, but it is something that is unknown to our children. And then we're not at that point in the picture. [00:16:11]
Laura Dugger: Again, just appreciate you both being willing to take us through this story. Brenna, as you've shared, even from the beginning, your father having an affair and leaving. And the interesting link to the fantasy of men pursuing you, I wonder if it's a little girl's good longing taken in the wrong direction where you long for your daddy to choose you and how that plays out, even into adulthood.
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Laura Dugger: So you two are running these, not even parallel paths, but running away from one another. [00:18:12] And so was there anything that broke this cycle?
Brenna Naufel: Yes.
Garrett Naufel: Yeah.
Brenna Naufel: Garrett can start first.
Garrett Naufel: Yeah. So, you know, throughout these eight years, I would be wrapped up in this sin, and then I would just be so disgusted and so fed up and so sick before the Lord. Again, it's kind of that binge and purge cycle where I would just step away and I'm done with this. Jesus, you've overcome this, and I'm going to trust in you. And then I would eventually take steps back in.
So in 2009, I was sitting, and at this point I'd been on staff with our church, and I had shared with members of the church and people on my staff team what I was struggling with. And so I was picking and choosing my spots to have the appearance. I wouldn't have thought that's what I was doing at the time, but reflecting back, you know, I was seeking some form of accountability, but still wasn't willing to fully be in the light with that. [00:19:17]
So I don't think that excuses anything. I think it just shows on some level the battle that was raging in me between my fallenness in flesh and what Jesus had purchased me for and called me into.
In 2009, I was sitting in a restaurant waiting to meet with a guy that was part of our church, and I was reading the scriptures, and the Lord just very clearly spoke to me and said, "This is enough. This is done." I was so convicted by the realities of what it means to be in the light, that if we are in the light as He is in the light, then we have fellowship with one another.
And it just struck me to the core. The Spirit pierced my heart and convicted me in an undeniable way, and I knew in that moment I had to flee. I had to flee sexual morality in every sense of the word, and I had to run towards Jesus, and I had to be fully in the light. [00:20:22]
So that night I got home after that meeting with that guy, I sat down with Brenna, and I said, "Here's what's been going on, and here's how long, and I need to confess this, and I need you to know, and I want to live in repentant ways. I will do whatever it takes to be in the light with this and to seek to rebuild trust, and I'm asking for your forgiveness."
I'm not expecting to be forgiven in the moment, but that we would go through the process of mourning, grieving, repenting, reconciling, and Lord willing being restored to one another in our marriage in that regard, because I had broken my vows to my wife to be set apart solely for her sexually.
Laura Dugger: Brenna, when he came forward and confessed to you, how did that land with you, and did that impact you in any way to be compelled to confess also?
Brenna Naufel: You'd think it would. [00:21:22] Let me start first with just kind of a response, I think, to Garrett confessing, and obviously I'm hiding my own crazy secret sin as well at this time that he's confessing. But I honestly was relieved in a sense to finally know and understand what that distance was that I had felt for so long.
I also knew what an incredible struggle it had been for me for the past five years of trying to end the affair and getting sucked back in and just the immense death that that has on your life and on your heart. So I was thankful that he was stepping out of that for himself, kind of recognizing that that must have been the struggle that he had been going through. I was so thankful that he was coming into the light and putting that to death as well.
In that moment, I think I was like, "I forgive you." I very quickly was, "I forgive you." [00:22:23] It was much more understanding in a sense. It's still not fully understanding, but understanding the struggle, the hiding of things, but I also didn't feel that I had the right, if that's the right word, to feel the hurt from it because I was doing my own thing and hurting him in my own ways. And so that would come much later.
So yes, there was a lot in me I would say Holy Spirit's probably like, "Now's the time. You've got to get your stuff on the table too. Now's the time." But I chickened out. I was so close in that conversation multiple times to just spill my stuff too, but I didn't. And I hate that I didn't, but in that moment. I just was too scared because it felt so big.
My moment came just a few months after Garrett confessed. And same thing with Garrett. I had put an end to things, and it would go several months, and then it would get sucked back in. So I kind of felt like I was doing okay, right? [00:23:34] Like, "Do I really need to share this with my husband?" Kind of similar thoughts to what Garrett had early on with his struggle.
I'm so thankful because I actually was confronted by a man that I had used to work with. The man I was having an affair with was a person at my job. So this other man had heard rumors and things and confronted me. He had his own reasons for doing that but God used it still, and basically said, "If you don't tell Garrett, I will."
So I broke. I rused out of the office as soon as I can after he confronted me. I just bawled my eyes out, just really turning my heart back towards the Lord and just so remorseful and so sorry and just overcome with guilt. And really just I think remorse is just the best word. Why did I do these things, and how could I have done these things? I was the person to be like, I would never do that to my husband, seeing other people struggle with that or having committed adultery.
So I decided to tell Garrett, but I still waited a few days because at that time, my job was kind of our primary source of income, and it was our source of insurance, and both of our other pastors from the church were going to be going out of town for the whole summer in a week or two, and the next week, I was supposed to go to Rome with my mom. [00:25:05] We had this trip planned to Italy.
There was all of these reasons why it didn't make sense to me to confess immediately, but again, I'm so thankful because even though I told this other guy, I am going to tell Garrett. I'm trying to figure things out, that wasn't enough for him. Unfortunately, he wound up calling Garrett I think probably just three or four days after he had confronted me. And he's the one that told him, "Did you know your wife is doing these things?"
That just broke my heart. One, that I did the things that I did, obviously, but that he had to find out that way instead of just me coming to him in the same way that he did to me, just out of humility and brokenness.
So he called me at work after he got that phone call and said, "I need you to come home," and I just knew what it was. I knew that this other guy must have called him.
I came into the house, we sat on the couch, and he asked me what seemed to be... It felt like he thought it was such a ridiculous question to have to ask me. [00:26:12] He was apologizing, like, "I am so sorry I have to ask you this most ridiculous question, but Andy called and he said this is what's happening. Is it true?" And I sat there and said, "Yes, it is. Yes, it is."
That was the beginning of confessing a lot of things. There was certainly this initial confession of the broad strokes of what had been going on and how long it had been going on for. Honestly, there was a few other men during that whole period where I had kissed or had some kind of brief physical encounter with, not sexually, but still. So there was multiple even offenses on that regard as well. And so all of that, I just confessed.
We called one of the pastors over, and he sat with some kind of tell all of these wretched things that I had done to Garrett and confessed it to our pastor as well. And I would continue confessing, honestly, for the next probably about two and a half years. [00:27:14] Because when you go through five years of doing this, there's just... Garrett wanted to know all the details.
And not everybody will want that or feel like they need that. That was the case for us. And I honestly feel like that was good for my heart as well, because I felt like when he was able to come to a place of truly forgiving me, I didn't feel like there was still anything hidden. Or, oh, well, but I did tell him about this part. So does he really forgive me? Does he really love me? Am I really known? So I feel like that was God's grace to us too. It was torture during the time, obviously, but I'm thankful for that nonetheless.
Laura Dugger: Absolutely. So you both came clean. Garrett, likewise, as I had asked Brenna before, when you received her confession or admission at that point, how was that for you to hear?
Garrett Naufel: As Brenna shared, I really did think this is ridiculous. [00:28:19] I was almost ashamed. We're serving in our church, we're leaders there, I was on the cusp of being ordained as a pastor. That was going to be delayed because I had just come into light with my struggles fully a few months prior to that. So I had already said, like, "I don't think this is the worst timing on this."
But I knew as one of the leaders in the church, hey, if there's this accusation against one of us, you know, we have to at least acknowledge it's there and do the work to either say, Hey, we understand this is not the case. Or if it is, there's work to be done." And so I took it seriously, even though I thought it was ridiculous.
I will say over the years of the affair, I had very much sensed a distance. And that's putting it lightly, there too. [00:29:22] But I had essentially attributed it to, hey, this is a season in Brenna's a walk, and I don't know what's going on. But my job is to encourage my wife in the Lord and to weather it with her, even if I don't understand what's going on, even if I don't have the wise, my commitment, my promises to my wife is to be here.
So, yeah, when I received the confession, I was certainly surprised. Because, again, I thought I was very much like, "I'm so sorry I have to ask this." But because we are leaders in the church, and there is this rumor, and we have to deal with this, I was shocked.
I think at the same time, my deep desire was to show Brenna the mercy of Christ that we had both received abundantly from Him. I would say there was some shock and some grief. But I think at least in the moment, my initial desire is, okay, Jesus, how does the gospel apply here? [00:30:28] And how can I extend that to my wife in real and tangible ways?
That was my initial thinking. As we had more time to process then and all the other things start coming to the forefront, there was much more to deal with. But my initial response was even probably to try to rush to forgiveness.
Brenna Naufel: You did. I mean, you did. You said, "I forgive you" in that first sit-down meeting, and our other pastor was like, "Time out." That's great, but we need to figure out just all that has been done to you. What are you forgiving? Do you understand?
Garrett Naufel: Yeah, to not extend, quote-unquote, cheap grace to my wife, but to do the hard work. I'd say the most overwhelming thing was, Jesus, I want to trust you for this, and I want to extend love to my wife.
Laura Dugger: Which is incredible and such a gift from the Lord to have that outlook. But also you mentioned doing the hard work. How did the two of you work through this? [00:31:32]
Garrett Naufel: Some very clear things we definitely sought to be in the light with one another and with others. We committed very early on to do, for lack of better terminology, the work of forgiveness. So, to not extend cheap grace to one another. And to do the hard work of rebuilding trust. To really say to one another, hey, whatever it's going to take for me to show that I am living a life of integrity, that I'm rebuilding together with the Lord a life of integrity, I will do that. And really, no real boundaries on that, other than obviously nothing sinful or nothing completely unreasonable or crazy.
That was a big part of it, saying yes to... if Brenna's saying to me, hey, I want you to have on your computer this software like Covenant Eyes type stuff, then it was an immediate, yeah, okay, absolutely. I'll do that right now type of thing. [00:32:35]
Brenna Naufel: Other very practical things. Obviously, I did not... I'm going to say obviously, because this is actually a struggle for some people, but I left my job immediately. So I never went back. As soon as I confessed, I never went back to my job other than to pick up my things with Garrett.
I blocked any communication means that I would have had with this man. I made sure that he couldn't find me on Facebook. Obviously deleting numbers we had at that time. AOL chat was kind of the big thing. And so I just completely got rid of that off of my computer.
Garrett and I actually went through each other's just even social media connections and friends. And if there was just somebody that we felt uncomfortable with at that time, just because of the hurt and the wound that was there, then we kind of severed those connections for the sake of our relationship and the sake of our marriage.
I got rid of anything that this man had given to me because he had given me some things. We just completely purged our house of anything that we could in that regard. [00:33:34] We immediately got into counseling with a Christian counselor. That was probably the biggest piece that was, I would just say, honestly critical.
So we did marriage counseling to get couples counseling together as well as that individual counseling as well. I was there at least probably two or three times a week in the beginning, meeting and processing with this person. We had a kind of a small team almost assigned to each of us from other members in the church-
Garrett Naufel: For care and accountability.
Brenna Naufel: Yeah, care and accountability. ...that could really just be there to walk with us individually with things as well. Practical things. Like if Garrett had to go out of town... he was immediately put on sabbatical for six months, which was huge.
Garrett Naufel: Enormous gift to Aspire Church.
Brenna Naufel: Huge blessing so we can just be together. I think we obviously committed to being completely honest and transparent with one another. So if Garrett did ask me a question, no matter how uncomfortable it was to have to articulate the truth to that question and the things that were done, I was committed to being honest in my response. [00:34:43]
And if he just couldn't possibly think of all the right questions to ask me, if there was something that came to my mind, I was committed to go and confess it and to share it with him. I will say I didn't always do that lickety-split, you know, like, Wohoo, I'm going to go tell Garrett something else.
There was times where I would struggle and wrestle with that for a couple of days, because sometimes those usually came up when things felt like they're just a little bit easier that day or it wasn't as heavy. And then I would remember something else, you know, that we'd have to go tell him. But we're still committed to do that work. I'm so thankful that we did. Because it's just another thing that Satan can grab a hold of and hold on to if we don't continue to confess.
We had for Garrett, like once I went to bed because he always stayed up late at night, college ministry. But I usually worked a nine-to-five job. I was in the process of looking for another job. But as soon as I went to bed, then you just know no laptop, no computer, no nothing, even with the software on it. [00:35:43] You know, like we're just putting away the devices. We put things on our TV to even filter out. Not that we had subscriptions or anything to anything risque.
But, you know, there's just stuff out there, too, even with basic cable and those things at the time. So we put even kind of parental controls on things. So we wanted to see stuff like that.
Garrett Naufel: I think the biggest thing was just a wholehearted commitment, desire to throw ourselves at the mercy of Christ, at the foot of the cross, and say, "Jesus, you have to take it all. You have to be the one who does the work to redeem us here, to help us even with our wills, as Brenna said, to the point of where in our flesh there's going to be temptation to not do certain things, but to instead say, No, Lord, please help us to wholeheartedly pursue you.
Laura Dugger: One reoccurring scripture that comes up for The Savvy Sauce is James 1:22. It says, "Do not merely listen to the word and so deceive yourselves. [00:36:42] Do what it says." And because our tagline here is Practical Chats for Intentional Living, we want to hear how you are applying these messages to your own life.
What action steps have you taken after hearing one of these podcasts that's improved your life a little bit? We would love to hear it. Please email us at info@thesavvysauce.com. I just love the way you articulate this with blending of practical and what you learned from scripture. It just made me think of Hebrews 12:1 and the first part of 2, because you mixed all of these elements that it talks about where you were living in community, you were confessing, you were turning away from things of the past and you were running toward Jesus.
So I'll just read... I've got my Bible open. It's the Quest NIV. Hebrews 12:1 and the first part of 2 say, "Therefore since we are surrounded by such a great cloud of witnesses, let us throw off everything that hinders and the sin that so easily entangles and let us run with perseverance the race marked out for us. Let us fix our eyes on Jesus, the author, and perfecter of our faith." [00:37:58] And you two just lived that out and shared that with us.
I'm also curious, were there any other ways that God really spoke to each of you throughout your healing journey?
Garrett Naufel: Yeah, I think for me, one of the most profound things was I understood that me pursuing my wife in truth and love and mercy and compassion and me pursuing Jesus was the best possible way that I could show the love of Jesus to my wife. That really to fulfill the burden of Christ was to bear this burden with my wife and to be an embodiment of the gospel to her. I would have no greater opportunity than to do this, to lay down my life and my quote-unquote rights for the sake of her heart and for her relationship with Jesus.
I really understood that as God saying this is where the rubber meets the road. You want to live out the gospel? Here's a profound opportunity for you to experience and live out what I've called you into. [00:39:06]
Brenna Naufel: For me, that's the aftermath of the affair. Really, probably two and a half, three years before we extended forgiveness and reconciled, we renewed our vows, all those kinds of things. It was a long journey. I would say it is the sweetest time that I've ever had with the Lord. He truly just meets us in the deepest, darkest valley. He taught me and just showed me so many things.
There is this big journey together with my counselor, too. As you mentioned earlier, Laura, it brought tears to my eyes when you did earlier about this little girl longing and wanting to be chosen and pursued as a result of those things. I definitely learned a lot just going back, looking at my childhood, what's there that I need to heal from. I felt God just tenderly with me in those moments.
Some specific things. [00:40:07] There was one significant event where God kind of gave me these four lessons, if you will. It was just about three or four months after my confession. Even though Garrett was on sabbatical, we still went to the staff retreat that our church had at that time, which was in Estes Park, Colorado. We're in Missouri still at this time, so this is in Estes Park.
We still went together, and it allowed me just a lot of time alone to get with the Lord. I went on a hike one day, and I just dedicated that time to God. I said, "God, I'm here. I am listening. Whatever you want to show me or teach me, I'm here." God really used that time.
Even starting off on that hike, I rounded this bend, and there were some tall grasses to the side. I heard a rustling in the grass. I was thinking, "Oh, no, what if there's a snake in there?" I heard the question, "Well, what if there is a snake?" I was like, "What if it bites me? What if it's poisonous?" Again, God was like, "Well, what if it does bite you and it is poisonous?" [00:41:13]
I responded with, "Well, we'd have to get the poison out." I felt like God was saying, exactly. You have been bitten by a snake and it's been causing death of life and joy and freedom. We have to get the poison out. I was understanding that to be all of my past hurt, the wounds that were done to me and the wounds that I've inflicted, the lies that I believed, certainly from my sin, I would have to get that poison out, otherwise, it would continue to kill me.
God was just really, again, helping me to embrace this deep healing process from all of those things and truly seeing Him for who He is and what He says is true instead of how I might see Him sometimes or what my heart feels about God at times.
So we continued on this path. I continued, me and God. We came up to these horses. I took this path specifically because I wanted to go by the horses because I had in my mind that I would have this amazing God encounter. [00:42:18] These horses would be galloping across the field. They would come over to me and recognize me and acknowledge me in some way. This is seriously what I was thinking.
Instead, I come and I see the first horse and it's just standing there. It's not acknowledging me. It's not even looking at me. And kind of I'm thinking, "What's the deal, buddy? What's up? Here I am. This is our moment." I saw horse after horse after horse that were actually tied by the bit and bridle super tight to the pole, like a fence that was in front of them. Again, I felt like God was sharing with me that I was like these horses because I was angry to see them. This is not right. This is not what horses are created for. Just being kind of stuck here like this. God was like, "You were like this horse. You were like this horse."
There's a verse that talks about, do not be like the horse or mule that must be controlled by bit and bridle. That had been me. [00:43:19] That was me stuck in my sin and not living as who God created me to be and not living in the freedom and joy that He created me to be in. It was just kind of this picture that He gave me with these horses.
I continued along and I'm just really enjoying my time with the Lord. Again, I took the path that the horses go on. People pay and they ride these horses to get to this park where I eventually was trying to get to. What I had not thought of is the horses don't go to the bathroom somewhere else before they go. On this path, there's just mounds and mounds of crap everywhere. I'm like, "Well, this is lovely. This isn't what I signed up for."
Again, I felt like God was even using that just saying, you know, life is like this path. I have promised you something beautiful, you know, in the future at the end but there's going to be a lot of crap along the way. And if you keep your eyes down and only focus on the crap, you're going to miss out on the beauty and the joy that I have surrounded you with. [00:44:24] Because, you know, you've got to look up is the message of you have to look up to me and you have to hold on to and trust my promises, hold on to me and trust the promises that I have given you.
Lastly, I made it through all the crap path and made it to the park that I was trying to get to. But I got really kind of mixed up. I had this terrible map and I wasn't sure how to complete the loop or which way to go to basically get back to the YMCA, which is where we were at in Estes Park there.
So I'm just wandering around. I'm kind of looking. I'm kind of acting like I know where to go, but I don't really know where to go. I finally had to ask someone for help. And even in that, I felt like God was teaching me and showing me that life is like this path. It's so easy to take a step in the wrong direction or to get off the path that I have intended for you.
You have to ask other people for help along the way. And because I was definitely afraid to ask anyone for help. That was kind of my shame that I wasn't worth helping or just that I was wrong. [00:45:31] So why would I ever ask somebody for help? So even in that, I feel like he was teaching me like, You might take a wrong step. You have to have people with you that help keep you on the right path as well.
So those are just a few of the things. Sorry for my long story. But yeah, God's just so sweet in meeting with me in so many ways.
Laura Dugger: That is so meaningful to hear how He personally met you and what a powerful encounter that was with him. I also love how He is lavish in His generosity because God not only chooses to heal us, but He can also restore and redeem our lives. And God certainly did that. He went on to redeem your marriage. And since that time, you two have renewed your wedding vows, you've had children, and now you even share that you have a marriage you never imagined possible. [00:46:33]
That's not to say that it's been perfect, because I know there were still struggles and loss along the way. But your life now reminds me of that first part of Joel 2:25 in the Bible that says, "And I will restore to you the years that the locusts hath eaten." So Garrett and Brenna, thank you for sharing about God's rescue and redemption story in your lives. If we're inspired to continue to learn more from you after this conversation, where would you like to direct us?
Brenna Naufel: I've written a book called From Lover to Beloved. It's experiencing God's hope, healing, and forgiveness after committing adultery. It's really written to the Christian or certainly those who may be wondering about this God thing who have committed adultery. It's written for them because I didn't see much out there for people in that boat. There's a lot of shame. There's a lot of condemnation that can come. And yet God is so good and so faithful to forgive and to remove our guilt and to restore. [00:47:42] I wanted to share that hope and that message with people. It interweaves a lot of the stories even that I kind of got to share today and certainly many more.
But just sharing God's truth about His forgiveness, being able to forgive yourself, talks about confession and repentance. Again, that's called From Lover to Beloved. It's on Amazon. I also have a website From LovertoBeloved.com, where you can certainly contact us through that. There's some other resources out there as well. And then on my Instagram, it's just @BrennaNaufel. So my name @@BrennaNaufel.
So even for reaching Garrett, I think probably through our website or things like that would probably work best for him directly as well.
Garrett Naufel: And we're very open to individual interaction. We appreciate and welcome direct messages, whatever avenue people want to speak directly with one or both of us.
Laura Dugger: Well, I will definitely add links to the show notes for today's episode so that people can find you easily there. Well, you both are already familiar that our podcast is called The Savvy Sauce because "savvy" is synonymous with practical knowledge. And so I just have one final question for both of you today. What is your savvy sauce? [00:48:59]
Brenna Naufel: Yeah, just the simple idea of asking before acting. I'm trying really hard to take time to really ask the Lord just for wisdom, for insight, for direction before I just run out and act. Because I can just like go out and do all the things and think that I'm doing all this amazing stuff but I haven't really taken time to ask the Lord if this is something He might have for me. Speaking kind of general. But just really asking before acting is what I'm working on right now. I would say that's my savvy sauce at the moment.
Garrett Naufel: I think having an unwavering commitment by God's grace and power to confessing quickly to things, having things, you know, not piecemealing being in the light, spreading it across various people and therefore saying, you know, I'm in the light because 10 people know this, but no one person knows everything.
And so, yeah, just have practically saying picking your spouse for sure. If you're married, your spouse should know you top to bottom. Make that commitment to make that known. [00:50:04] But I think to having at least a few other mature believers who know your life and who you're quick to say, Hey, here's what's going on. Here's the whole of my life, not just the, quote-unquote, prettier presentable parts. That has been practically very profound in us living in freedom of interest with Jesus. And so I would, without flinching, recommend that to anyone and everyone who would follow after Jesus.
Laura Dugger: Love it. Well, Garrett and Brenna, I can't say thank you enough. Thank you for your transparency and for entrusting us with your story so that we can see God a little bit clearer and be encouraged by His grace that's freely offered to each of us. You've testified how he can restore beauty from ashes. And I'm so grateful. So thank you for being my guests.
Garrett Naufel: Thank you.
Brenna Naufel: Thank you so much for taking the time to chat with us. We're honored. [00:51:06]
Garrett Naufel: Yeah, it's a privilege and pleasure. Thank you so much.
Laura Dugger: One more thing before you go. Have you heard the term "gospel" before? It simply means good news. And I want to share the best news with you. But it starts with the bad news. Every single one of us were born sinners, but Christ desires to rescue us from our sin, which is something we cannot do for ourselves.
This means there is absolutely no chance we can make it to heaven on our own. So, for you and for me, it means we deserve death and we can never pay back the sacrifice we owe to be saved. We need a Savior.
But God loved us so much, He made a way for His only Son to willingly die in our place as the perfect substitute. This gives us hope of life forever in right relationship with Him. That is good news.
Jesus lived the perfect life we could never live and died in our place for our sin. [00:52:08] This was God's plan to make a way to reconcile with us so that God can look at us and see Jesus. We can be covered and justified through the work Jesus finished if we choose to receive what He has done for us.
Romans 10.9 says that if you confess with your mouth Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved.
So would you pray with me now? Heavenly Father, thank You for sending Jesus to take our place. I pray someone today right now is touched and chooses to turn their life over to You. Will You clearly guide them and help them take their next step in faith to declare You as Lord of their life? We trust You to work and change lives now for eternity. In Jesus' name we pray. Amen.
If you prayed that prayer, you are declaring Him for me, so me for Him. You get the opportunity to live your life for Him. [00:53:08] And at this podcast, we're called The Savvy Sauce for a reason. We want to give you practical tools to implement the knowledge you have learned. So you ready to get started?
First, tell someone. Say it out loud. Get a Bible. The first day I made this decision, my parents took me to Barnes & Noble and let me choose my own Bible. I selected the Quest NIV Bible, and I love it. You can start by reading the Book of John.
Also, get connected locally, which just means tell someone who's a part of a church in your community that you made a decision to follow Christ. I'm assuming they will be thrilled to talk with you about further steps, such as going to church and getting connected to other believers to encourage you.
We want to celebrate with you too, so feel free to leave a comment for us here if you did make a decision to follow Christ. We also have show notes included where you can read Scripture that describes this process.
Finally, be encouraged. [00:54:03] Luke 15:10 says, "In the same way, I tell you, there is rejoicing in the presence of the angels of God over one sinner who repents." The heavens are praising with you for your decision today.
If you've already received this good news, I pray that you have someone else to share it with today. You are loved and I look forward to meeting you here next time.
Welcome to The Savvy Sauce
Practical chats for intentional living
A faith-based podcast and resources to help you grow closer to Jesus and others. Expect encouragement, surprises, and hope here. Each episode offers lively interviews with fascinating guests such as therapists, authors, non-profit founders, and business leaders.
They share their best practices and savvy tips we can replicate to make our daily life and relationships more enjoyable!
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