**Transcription Below**

Genesis 50:20 + 21 (NIV) "You intended to harm me, but God intended it for good to accomplish what is now being done, the saving of many lives. So then, don’t be afraid. I will provide for you and your children.” And he reassured them and spoke kindly to them."

Questions and Topics We Discuss:

Are you willing to share some of the supernatural happenings you experienced with you family and your dad near the end of his life?
Will you share a few of your God stories you've experienced through your daughter, Olive's medical journey?
What are some recent things the Lord has been teaching you?

Jackie Coleman completed her undergraduate studies at the University of Georgia in 2005. She later earned an M.A. in Counseling from Richmont Graduate University and an M.Ed. from Harvard Graduate School of Education, where she was named an Urban Scholar. While in Boston, she worked as a bilingual Family Counselor for Youth Villages, and later launched the Transitional Living program, which is designed to assist at-risk youth aging out of state custody. While in Atlanta, she worked on marriage and family issues with Building Intimate Marriages and research and writing projects for best-selling author Shaunti Feldhahn. In 2012, as Executive Director, Jackie helped design and implement Governor Deal's REACH (Realizing Educational Achievement Can Happen) Georgia program, a mentoring and college scholarship opportunity for low-income middle school students. Eventually Jackie taught at Winters Chapel School where her children attended. Jackie is married to John and she now stays home with their four children.

Other Episodes Mentioned from The Savvy Sauce:

23 Nurturing Friendships with Jackie Coleman

99 Sabbath Rest with Sandy Feit

Total Forgiveness Sermon by R.T. Kendall

Thank You to Our Sponsor: WinShape Marriage

Connect with The Savvy Sauce through Our Website

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Gospel Scripture: (all NIV)

Romans 3:23 “for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,”

Romans 3:24 “and are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus.”

Romans 3:25 (a) “God presented him as a sacrifice of atonement, through faith in his blood.”

Hebrews 9:22 (b) “without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness.”

Romans 5:8 “But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us.”

Romans 5:11 “Not only is this so, but we also rejoice in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have now received reconciliation.”

John 3:16 “For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.”

Romans 10:9 “That if you confess with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.”

Luke 15:10 says “In the same way, I tell you, there is rejoicing in the presence of the angels of God over one sinner who repents.”

Romans 8:1 “Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus”

Ephesians 1:13–14 “And you also were included in Christ when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation. Having believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit, who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God’s possession- to the praise of his glory.”

Ephesians 1:15–23 “For this reason, ever since I heard about your faith in the Lord Jesus and your love for all the saints, I have not stopped giving thanks for you, remembering you in my prayers. I keep asking that the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the glorious Father, may give you the spirit of wisdom and revelation, so that you may know him better. I pray also that the eyes of your heart may be enlightened in order that you may know the hope to which he has called you, the riches of his glorious inheritance in the saints, and his incomparably great power for us who believe. That power is like the working of his mighty strength, which he exerted in Christ when he raised him from the dead and seated him at his right hand in the heavenly realms, far above all rule and authority, power and dominion, and every title that can be given, not only in the present age but also in the one to come. And God placed all things under his feet and appointed him to be head over everything for the church, which is his body, the fullness of him who fills everything in every way.”

Ephesians 2:8–10 “For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith – and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God – not by works, so that no one can boast. For we are God‘s workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do.“

Ephesians 2:13 “But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far away have been brought near through the blood of Christ.“

Philippians 1:6 “being confident of this, that he who began a good work in you will carry it on to completion until the day of Christ Jesus.”

**Transcription**

[00:00:00] <music>

Laura Dugger: Welcome to The Savvy Sauce, where we have practical chats for intentional living. I'm your host Laura Dugger, and I'm so glad you're here.

[00:00:17] <music>

Laura Dugger: I am thrilled to introduce you to our sponsor, Winshape Marriage. Their weekend retreats will strengthen your marriage, and you will enjoy this gorgeous setting, delicious food, and quality time with your spouse. To find out more, visit them online at Winshapemarriage.org. Thanks for your sponsorship.

Jackie Coleman is my returning guest today. I could tell you about all the amazing things she's done as a marriage and family therapist and a Harvard graduate, but we're actually going to focus on something more important than accolades: Her faith in God and his faithfulness over the years.

Jackie and I began our friendship in 2007 when we were both attending Richmond Graduate University. Since that time, throughout both of our multiple moves, we've remained friends. [00:01:23] And you're going to see why. When you meet a friend like Jackie, you don't let her go.

As Jackie shares her story, be prepared to pull out the tissues and to also laugh out loud. Here's our chat.

Welcome to The Savvy Sauce, Jackie.

Jackie Coleman: Thank you so much, Laura. I'm so excited to be here with you.

Laura Dugger: Well, will you just start us off by sharing your testimony and your current life stage?

Jackie Coleman: Absolutely. So, basically, my testimony actually starts back with my parents, if you can believe that. I was born to two Jewish kids who were basically trying to figure out Christianity. So we went to church when I was very young. We dabbled with Christian holidays. I remember having a Christmas bush in the dining room, you know, which was kind of forbidden telling our Grandma Libby, don't go in there. [00:02:20]

Their faith was always so strong because they gave up everything to follow Jesus. So while it was hard at times, and I'm sure they had questions, they fully believed and dedicated their lives to learning and deepening their faith. So this really translated to us as kids.

So, you know, Wednesdays and Sundays at church were really big. We loved it. I became a Christian at five. I remember it being very real to me. I was baptized at seven. I truly loved Jesus. But it was very intellectual for me. I knew all the right answers, I did all the right things for the most part, but it hadn't really become my own.

And it really wasn't until a college experience when... you know, I was on my own. I really hadn't been going to church. I was doing kind of my own thing. I wasn't living a crazy lifestyle, but I just wasn't going to church. But my parents were coming to visit. Cue the dun-dun-dun. [00:03:22]

So I had to find a church to show them that I was living the lifestyle that they had brought me up in, but I had no idea where to go. So I just looked up the nearest Baptist church because that's where we went when I was growing up.

So I found Prince Avenue Baptist Church and brought my parents there. Prince Avenue Baptist Church that day was actually literally on fire. One of the buildings had caught on fire. And so everyone was actually congregated outside in the parking lot.

This was by the grace of God because I would have just slipped in the church, slipped out of the church with my parents, not met anyone because I knew no one. But it was through that experience, actually, that they met the college pastor.

I happened to be going through a really hard time at that point, and so they talked to that college pastor and they asked if maybe I could meet with him. That completely changed the trajectory for me.

I met with Sky. He said some things that really kind of shifted my perspective, how everything was very focused on me instead of on bigger things, on God. [00:04:29] He invited me on a mission trip. And it was through that that just God really shifted my heart and God became real. It was an intellectual thing and then it became a heart thing.

Now in my current stage, faith is it. It's all I can stand on now. It's all that's firm. Like that song, Christ is my firm foundation, I have that on repeat. I love that part of the song where it says, I still have joy in chaos, I have peace that makes no sense. So I won't be going under. I'm not held by my own strength.

Because in this season, Laura, it's... I don't know how to describe it. It's been really oppressive. It's been a very, very hard season for us. Not only hard but just brutal. We have a medically complicated sick child. There's been some really tough division between me and John. Kids have been acting out because of the stress. My body... if you can hear it, this is not my real voice. [00:05:30] I sound very low. My body has just really been wearing out.

But, you know, even in the midst of these unknowns and crazy waves, God has just shown up in big ways. And it's undoubtedly God. And so I just keep remembering that Satan comes to steal and kill and destroy, but God. But God shows up. So that's where I'm at.

Laura Dugger: Goodness. Thank you, Jax, for sharing. Truly, you are living this out. Because anytime we have a phone conversation, there are heavy things that you're walking through. But even in our last text thread, you just said, "I cannot wait to share what God has been doing." So thank you for pointing us all back to Him.

Your testimony reminds me your mom was a guest on The Savvy Sauce. So I'll link to Sandy Feit's episode on the Sabbath. She shared a little bit of her testimony that's intertwined with yours. [00:06:31]

Then on your previous episode on The Savvy Sauce, which I'll also link to in the show notes, you shared that one of the hardest things you've ever walked through in your life at that point was losing your dad to cancer. I also remember you sharing that there were supernatural experiences with him near the end of his life that you and your family experienced together. So will you let us in on a few of those happenings?

Jackie Coleman: It would be such an honor. I feel like we were able to see things that I feel like we weren't supposed to see, almost, so I would feel so honored to get to share some of those. But that was such a devastating time in my life. Still can be hard. At times grief is really tricky. As those who have walked through, are walking through know that grief is not linear. You don't just cycle through and then you're done. It's really messy. So my heart goes out to those who are experiencing grief. It's really hard.

But I recently went to a marriage intensive with John and we had to walk through our growing up years and story. And I just didn't realize how much fear I had growing up around death. I just hadn't experienced a lot of death growing up. There was something so scary and creepy about it. And even though I believed in Jesus and eternity, but death itself is so vile and terrifying to me. So having this experience was a nightmare. It just felt unreal. Like, how could this be happening?

But I remember the day that we found out that something wasn't right, it was my son, my oldest son's 2-year-old birthday party. And I had a 2-year-old and a 6-month-old at the time. [00:08:22] And the surgeons had found something in a surgery on my dad. Not at the birthday party. Thank goodness. That would be a really demented birthday party.

He found something during a previous hernia surgery that didn't look right. We didn't know what it was, but they let my mom know that it wasn't good.

Now, my dad, he had a really strong faith, but he always had a lot of anxiety around cancer. He lost his mom to cancer. He had just gotten the courage to actually take the test to rule out the type of cancer that she had died from. And it had just come back negative. So it had taken so much bravery to take that test. But then this finding. And the road just kept getting more treacherous.

So I remember my dad asking me when he realized that this was something related to oncology, he asked me if I would join him and my mom at that first oncology appointment. And I still have that video when the doctor announced what it was and he said it was cancer. And he said, "Pancreatic cancer. Metastatic." [00:09:27] What nasty, nasty words. I remember losing my breath.

But my dad, he never lost hope. His reaction was always, "I'm going to fight this thing." He put his fist in the air and he said, "I'm going to fight this thing with determination."

Now, my dad was a pediatrician. He's medical. But I think, you know, at the time, he just wasn't ready to face the reality of what that diagnosis meant. And that was okay. He just wanted to hold on to hope.

But this whole process from diagnosis until death, it took about 3.5 months, three and a half months. It was so fast. During that time, he's in and out of the hospital. I'd spend nights with him trying to give my mom some reprieve, helping him, doing things that no daughter ever wants to do, you know, for your dad. But you do it because that's what you do.

And through it all, he never let go of his hope. He was always, "I'm going to fight this thing" with his fist in the air. And I was always so proud of him for holding on to hope. [00:10:27] You know, he did that until he just wasn't willing to fight that thing any longer. You know, just too much pain, too many hospital stays. Food had lost its appeal. And this was a guy who lived for his food. He would always call me like, "Do you want to get Chinese" or "do you want to go for Italian?" You know, food had just lost its luster, and that was so heartbreaking to watch.

He was suffering and he was ready. He was ready to stop those treatments and just to feel comfortable or try anyway. So that just meant hospice.

And for some reason, hospice feels like submitting somehow, but it really isn't. At the right time, it's really the right answer. We supported him and encouraged him, although we knew that fighting at this stage was, you know, futile, barring a miracle, which we're not denying that that's possible. It's always possible. But we just didn't want to take his hope. But he really was ready, ready to go to that next step. [00:11:27]

So I always describe that hospice step as brutal and beautiful. The brutal part was long. He was always a worker outer. So his heart was very strong. He was actually in hospice for a week, which, you know, being at the stage that he was, that was actually a very long time considering how much his body had deteriorated and how little life he had left in him.

It was hard to see him like that. Like, where was my strong and resonant voice, handsome, larger than life Dad? It's just hard to see someone suffer like that.

But the beautiful... this is where the supernatural comes in. We really saw things that most people don't get to see on this side of heaven. That's where I would love to share some of those experiences, if that's okay here.

Laura Dugger: I hope you do. Yes. I'm so grateful that you're even willing to let us in. [00:12:28]

Jackie Coleman: Yeah. Thank you for the opportunity. So I mentioned that my parents are Jewish and they found a love for Jesus. The backstory to that, and I won't go into the details, that's part of my mom's testimony, which you can find on her episode of The Savvy Sauce. She has articles written in touch.

But it was through the loss of a baby, my brother, Jonathan, a long time ago. He was only 31 days old. It was devastating to them. You know, my dad being a pediatrician was at his hospital. It was just devastating. But this truly is a story of beauty from ashes. It's just amazing how God worked in their life from that devastation, from complete heartbreak, and used it to change generations. And now those generations love Jesus. But anyway.

So I was sitting with my dad and just talking to him a little bit as much as he could and listening to music and then all of a sudden his eyes got huge. I saw him trying to sit up and he pointed and he said, "Is Jonathan here?" [00:13:31]

And my dad was completely lucid. He had just been talking to me and I was super confused because my nephew is actually named Jonathan after my brother. But I shrugged it off and I was like, "No, dad, it's just me and mom here with you." And he firmly said, "No, not that Jonathan." And then he pointed to himself and he said, "My Jonathan."

So that little baby whose death left such a gaping hole, that little baby who helped lead my parents to Jesus, who had changed the course of generations, had been present, but not as a baby. Apparently, he looked like me, according to my dad in that room. And how full circle, how amazing an experience.

Throughout that time, my dad, you know, he saw beautiful things like that. It was such an amazing experience to get to witness and hear the things we can never obviously see them. But he would remark things like white robes. [00:14:31] We have some of this on tape. We will keep those videos and treasure them.

He would always kind of look over at the upper right-hand corner of the room. You can hear accounts of hospice nurses, there are books and books where there are similar accounts of this. But he would look up and say, "Wow, unbelievable," over and over and over again. And we would prod him and say, "What are you seeing, Dad? What are you seeing?" And he would just continually say, "Wow, unbelievable."

At one point he stated, "I'm in a marketplace, a Jewish marketplace." And we begged him for more. We're like, "Dad, what are you smelling? What colors are you seeing?" And he had no more to give. But I do believe that he was witnessing the new Jerusalem.

Later, my mom and I were actually able to take a really special trip to Israel and walk in those marketplaces in Jerusalem. [00:15:31] And it was such a special experience because maybe those were some of the images that my dad got to see.

But maybe the most incredible experience was right at the end. My dad, you know, entered hospice on a Saturday and it was almost a weekend. He was no longer really talking. He was barely moving, which is why one night I was super confused to see him sitting up on the edge of his bed.

I was sleeping, so when I looked at him, I was really confused because when I would be in the hospital room with him, he often would sit up if he needed to go to the bathroom and I would just help him.

So I thought I was in the hospital room with him but then I snapped to it and I remembered where we were and I jumped up to prevent him from trying to stand, because that would mean an inevitable fall or something worse. And I asked him, "What are you doing, Dad? What are you doing?" And forcefully, he said, "I want to take Jesus's hand. I want to go to Jesus. I want to go to Jesus. I want to take Jesus's hand." [00:16:32]

It took so much strength and so much convincing to try to get that man to stay down. He was so ready to take Jesus' hand and to go to Jesus. I needed to actually get the nurse's help because he was so adamant about taking Jesus' hand. Those were actually his last words.

After that, it was another three whole days. There was zero movement, no blinking, no sounds out of him. You know, his breathing changed, so we knew that the end was very close.

At that moment, I had a massive, massive panic attack, which was weird because I had literally been through everything with him every step of the way through horrific things. But there was a purpose in that, and I see it now.

But my brother took me out of the room to calm me down. And the purpose in it, I thought, was so beautiful. My mom was left alone with my dad and they got to be together, just the two of them. [00:17:35] I had felt guilty at first, like I had abandoned them. But after seeing it with new eyes, I see that that was really the design, that they were together and that was the way it was supposed to be.

Finally, when I had calmed down, my brother and I walked back to the room and my brother peeked in the room and he said, "Dad is raising his hands." And I was like, "What are you talking about? Dad hasn't moved. Dad... what? Dad had not moved, blinked, talked, done anything for those three days. What do you mean he's raising his hands?"

And sure enough, my mom had been holding his hand and he lifted his hand out of my mom's hand up, and then he raised his other hand up to meet that one and his fingers folded. And that is how he died. He literally, I believe, took Jesus's hand and went to be with Jesus in that moment. And what a gift that was.

Laura Dugger: I am speechless. That is holy and sacred and beautiful and hard, all the things you said to describe it. [00:18:44] Just incredible, Jackie.

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Laura Dugger: Well, Jackie, you've also had quite the medical journey with your daughter, Olive, and you alluded to it a little bit, but would you be willing to share a few of your God stories that you've experienced through her medical journey?

Jackie Coleman: I would love to. This has been a journey, a saga. And a journey, as you know, is the act of traveling. So we are actually in that act right now. We're nowhere near the final destination of this medical saga. I wish we had more conclusion to it.

But what I love about the story, as hard as it has been, and it is hard, is that God has been so faithful every step along the way. [00:20:52] He has provided just the right doctor for insight, appointment, person answering the phone. I mean, the stories of this type of thing are countless.

So this medical journey with our daughter started back on May 3rd. I will never forget that day. May 3rd, 2021. Olive had a massive grand mal seizure, one of the scariest things you will ever see. Panic, fear, ambulance, hospital, genetic testing, MRIs, EEGs. Complete paradigm shift. You go from having a healthy child to, wait, there's something deeply wrong here.

So God's provisions to equip us started well before this date, though. It reminds me of Joseph's story, how really the story started like years before where God was preparing the journey, preparing him years before so that he could save Israel. [00:21:51]

But for the longest time, you know, John had been encouraging me to get help, help with the kids. We have four. But my pride, Laura, I don't know why we let pride get in the way, but it stood in the way. Because why would I need help? I'm a stay-at-home mom for crying out loud. This is my job. I don't need to outsource. I'm capable.

But God knew better. Like, I finally accepted help. And five days, get this, five days before Olive's first seizure, we welcomed an au pair into our family. We didn't realize this would be one of the biggest godsends we ever received. It was an amazing provision, extra hands.

There were so many appointments and needs. And we couldn't have done the next couple of years without this amazing girl who now is family forever. She unknowingly joined our chaos and she stayed. I don't know why she stayed with us, but she did. And God bless her. She's amazing. [00:22:54]

But those provisions started even earlier than those five days before the seizure. God was laying the groundwork for the future needs and future support. And it backs up way further to when our baby, Paxton, was a baby in 2020. So it was November 2020. So it was half a year earlier before Olive had her seizure. I hope this timeline isn't confusing. But it was half a year before Olive had her seizure when God really did a huge work.

My son was actually having what the doctor feared were seizures and he was only three weeks old. So he was admitted to the hospital for a bunch of testing. And in walks the neurology team and we were smack dab in the middle of this pandemic. So we were all masked.

But the neurologist immediately looked at John and with stunned eyes said, "John Coleman?" And she pulls down her mask. I was so afraid it was going to be like this old girlfriend situation or something awkward. [00:23:58] But it happened to be, get this, his former babysitter from Columbus, Georgia, Laura. She was only a few years older than John. So it's not like a weird, you know... She was not much older than him. But she lived on his street and I think she would just help him not murder his brothers when his parents went out.

But because of the personal connection that she had to John, she took extra good care of us. And she even gave us her cell phone number if anything should come up. We really didn't need it because Paxton was discharged and it was just, you know, underdeveloped neurology and bad eyesight. So we didn't think we needed any help after that. But little did we know, right?

But this is where the amazing comes in. So fast forward back to the six months when Olive had her grand mal seizure and we had to go to the large children's hospital here in Atlanta, CHOA, to get an MRI. Once we finished that MRI, we were just headed down to the parking deck. And we were leaving in the elevator only to hear, "Jackie?"

And I looked in the elevator in this parking garage and who should it be? [00:25:09] It was John's former babysitter, Laura, in this huge hospital, in the same elevator, leaving at this weird time of day. I mean, how big is God? I just don't even know how to explain it. There's no way to explain it except for God.

So she caught up on why we were there, what we were going through and she quickly jumped into our story. Since then she has spent hours on the phone with us, explaining terms, scenarios I didn't understand. She's a Christian, she's prayed fervently for Olive and for answers. She's not even practicing neurology anymore and she's still... I text her on a daily basis.

Like I was just on the phone with her this morning, actually, after our neurology appointment, asking her a question. Such a big part of our story and such a big help.

After Olive has been on one medication for a number of months and her condition kept getting worse pretty severely, this Laura, who's the neurologist, was the one to think through the potential pitfalls and options, even though she wasn't actually our doctor on the case. [00:26:22] And after much prayer, she encouraged me to talk to our neurologist about a tried-and-true medication that just kept coming to her mind. It was the Holy Spirit for Olive.

So she helped me think about how to present the options to our neurologist and make the case for weaning Olive off of the current medication into a new medication. This was something that our specialists and our current neurologist were actually hesitant to do. But both Laura and I were uncomfortable with the constant subclinical seizures that were happening for Olive, especially at nighttime.

So the care team came on board with this idea, this change. And after ramping up onto this new medication that Laura had prayed about and said, "I really think you should try it," we got this ambulatory EEG, which is just a brain scan that's overnight." And when I opened the test results, I think it was by email a few days later, I knew that I got someone else's test. It was wrong because it was normal. I got a normal EEG. I kept reading it. [00:27:26]

I sent it to Laura and I was like, "This can't be our result. Is it?" She's like, "I don't know. That seems... maybe." Because we were told that that was not possible for Olive. There's too much technical terms, but Olive's brain was spiking at nighttime 95% of the time. It's like if a seizure is a fire in your brain, she was having sparks of a fire every second of the night. And it destroys your brain. You don't have restorative sleep. And she's having that now too, which is just devastating. But how big is God?

She had a second EEG months later with the same result: normal. It was like we got our girl back after months of hard, months of hard.

So Olive's condition is super rare. There are only 1,600 diagnosed in the entire world. It's a very small network. I know all the researchers, I feel like, all the doctors, I read all the papers. [00:28:27]

But one other amazing God story in this is that there are only two people identified with her particular mutation. She has an [excondylation?]. Again, this sounds very technical. And believe me, I know more brain science than I ever wanted to know.

But the two people are Olive and this one other person. And we happened somehow, again, through... it's God. We happened to connect with this family. And this person is a little girl. She lives in Florida. She's only one month younger than Olive. They are so similar. We were able to meet up with them when their family happened to be vacationing in Georgia.

Our families are so similar. They're strong Christians. Our families are now so connected and it's been so rich. We've spent time together. We share lots of tears. I call the mom up often with just sometimes just to vent, sometimes to ask a question. We've shared laughs. We've visited genetics labs together. [00:29:29] We share tips and ideas. It's just such a blessing. And so how gracious is God to put people in our lives and people in our paths just when we need it?

So this story is far from over. Like far. We had a really good run with that medication, but at the end of July, this past July, we noticed a huge change in Olive's demeanor and I could tell something was super off with her. So we got an EEG and it was confirmed that the activity was back, unfortunately. This is just something that can happen.

The medicine is no longer doing what it was supposed to be doing. So many tears, lots of appointments, some hospital stays, sickness, as you can hear in my voice, many difficulties. We just haven't found a good solution yet. And it's just really hard on her. It's hard on our family right now.

But God is faithful. I fully stand on that, even with these big question marks and the abnormal EEGs. [00:30:28] It's like when we had to have a person actually sitting in our room in the hospital, when we were just in the hospital a week and a half ago, keeping eyes on her to make sure that she was okay, because things were pretty dire.

And we didn't realize it at the time, but that person sitting in our room who was assigned to us, she must've heard us reading our Bible stories together or seeing our books on our bedside table. And at the end of her shift, she came over to me and said, "I just want to let you know that I'm a pastor and I've been spending my 12-hour shift in your room praying over your girl, your family, her health."

I couldn't stop the tears. I think I hugged her so hard. Maybe I hurt her. I'm not sure. But she still checks in with us. She got my number, I have hers. She checks in with us and she still prays with me. Laura, how big is God?

There are constant reminders of things that to the naked eye might feel like coincidence, but I know that there's no such thing as coincidence. [00:31:31] There are many more. There are just too many to recount. And while I wish I had a neatly tied conclusion to share right now in the story, we don't. We're just in the messy, uncomfortable middle of the story.

The past few weeks have been some of the hardest weeks I've ever experienced, but we know that God is faithful. And because of that, like, I really do have a genuine peace despite the hard.

Laura Dugger: Well, and each of us can be praying right now, Jackie. This is a reminder to pray for Olive. So what are those specific things you're praying right now for her?

Jackie Coleman: The biggest prayer is that the medication will do what it needs to do to calm her brain so that she can get restorative sleep again in those areas, because it's impacting so much for her. So really that we get her on the right track in terms of treatment. [00:32:32] That's the biggest thing right now. I feel like we have all the right people, it's just what's the right course. So I would covet prayers.

Laura Dugger: Yes. Lord Jesus, we pray for Olive and lift her up and her entire family board, and just that you would determine their steps, you would clearly lay out the course of action and the medical treatment and the exact right and best medication and your solution. We ask for a miracle. We believe in miracles. We ask for full healing and restoration. And we all pray this together, Lord lifting up this prayer to you. In Jesus' name we pray. Amen.

Jackie Coleman: Amen. That actually reminds me, Laura, with my dad, he had four principles by which he would live. And one of them was expect a miracle. And so I'm going to hold on to that because I really... you do need to keep your eyes open. They're all around us, and God is faithful. So thank you. [00:33:32]

Laura Dugger: Yes. Well, I remember that from your dad and he had that posted written down. I'm assuming you're a documenter. So have you been documenting these stories as well to be able to look back and see God's faithfulness?

Jackie Coleman: Oh yes. Yes. I don't want to forget even one detail because the details it's amazing.

Laura Dugger: How did you find out about The Savvy Sauce? Did someone share this podcast with you? Hopefully you've been blessed through the content. Now we would love to invite each of you to share these episodes with friends and help us spread the word about The Savvy Sauce. You can share today's episode or go back and choose any one of your other previous favorites to share. Thanks for helping us out.

Well, Jackie, I just learned so much from you during every conversation. So I want to follow up with you in three areas where I especially respect you. [00:34:32] So some more questions about your faith, parenting, and intellectual stimulation. So first, what are some recent things the Lord has been teaching you?

Jackie Coleman: The biggest thing, and this hit my heart so much, is total forgiveness. This was an R. T. Kendall sermon back from 2016 that was literally just shared with me this weekend, actually by Laura, the neurologist angel friend who loves Jesus and listened to the Holy Spirit's promptings.

She sent this to me at a moment that she had no idea I needed it, no idea, but it actually was revolutionary, changed the course of something that... I needed it.

So I understand the basic concept of forgiveness and this is something, you know, we all need to do not for others. It's really for ourselves. It's to release us from chains, right? But do I practice total forgiveness? Absolutely not. I harbor anger, bitterness, resentments. [00:35:41] So this message pierced my heart, Laura.

He challenges you. It's like total forgiveness is a willingness to let someone off the hook. We have this desire, it's like a natural desire to expose people that hurt us. It's like vindication. I really struggle with justice versus mercy. I'm a justice person.

You know, in Les Mis, everyone loves Jean Valjean and I do too, but I also commiserate with Javert. I'm like, he's just trying to do his job. You know, come on people. But the challenge is that the degree to which we can let them off the hook is the degree to which God will step in. This is what R. T. Kendall says. This is not Jackie, right? These are R. T. Kendall's ideas, not mine, please. I don't want to plagiarize because this is the hardest thing for me.

And he says, it's like the hardest thing we'll ever have to do. It goes against all that's natural. We want these people to be exposed, but what are we to do? [00:36:41] We're to pray for them, not just for them to get God's wrath, right? We want, man, God, take care of them. Maybe they'll die. Right? But we want God to bless them. And how hard is that?

But when we do this, Satan can't get that foothold. He doesn't get an entry point into our lives. Right. In this sermon, which I hope maybe there's a way to link it in the show notes because this sermon was so eye-opening to me. I really struggle with forgiveness.

He touches on my absolute favorite story in the Old Testament, which is Joseph in Genesis 45. Joseph had every opportunity to get vengeance on his brothers. But like, what did he do when his brother showed up in that room? He sent everyone out, everyone other than his brothers. Right?

And why did he do that? He did that to shield them from the wrath of other people, from the shame that... for what they had done to Egypt's hero, to Joseph, because they would have been in big trouble. Those brothers would have been in big trouble if anyone had found out what they had done to Joseph, the hero. [00:37:44]

And instead of instilling fear, Joseph loved them. I encourage you to listen to this sermon if you do have a moment and maybe it won't pierce your heart, like it pierced mine. I really struggle with forgiveness. So this is such a big thing in my faith journey right now. I feel so challenged by this. And it was at such a pivotal moment in my walk-in certain relationships.

Laura Dugger: That is so helpful because I have never met anyone who says I am awesome at forgiveness. That's so easy for me to do. You are also such an incredible mom, Jackie. I admire the way that you fiercely love those four children. It's clear that you desire what's best for them. So what are some of your best practices or favorite ideas surrounding parenting right now? [00:38:44]

Jackie Coleman: Yes, I love those children fiercely. They're wearing me out right now, but yes, I love them so much.

My biggest thing that I really am trying to focus on that I think I have on repeat with them... you know, school can be hard and the pressures of peers can be hard and the world is tough. This is something I'm trying to instill in them. And also me. This was actually from a Tim Keller book, Freedom of Self Forgetfulness. I don't have any original material if you can't tell. No original material. But this is our goal. And I say this to them over and over and over, and this is really impossible to do.

Okay. Here's the punchline. I don't care what other people think of me. I don't care what other people think of me. I don't even care what I think of me. So hard to do right. I only care what God thinks of me. I say this to them all the time. I'm like, this is impossible to actually do, but this is something we're going to strive for. [00:39:46] I don't care what other people think of me. I don't even care what I think of me. I really only care what God thinks of me. And that's the bar by which we're going to live.

Because I just genuinely want their whole orientation to be around what God wants for them. What do they know to be true? It's not this world. That stuff always disappoints. But there is one thing that won't disappoint them. So that is something that I feel like we do say on repeat.

The other thing that we drill down on in this house is kindness. Oh, kindness. It's really all the fruits of the spirit, but really kindness is kind of like... if we have to boil it down, we really want kindness to be the thing. A big part of that is what I model as a parent.

And believe me, I have to say a lot of apologies each day for missing the mark. But kindness is really... Trying to get them to see, Like how does that impact the other person and empathy and... you know? But kindness is really something that we were trying to live by in this house. [00:40:51]

So those two things I think. We're trying to keep it simple because things are so complicated right now. But those are two things that we really try to drill down on with the kids.

Laura Dugger: That's so good. Because kindness really is a driver of so many of those fruits of the spirit. And just in case other parents are listening, can you catch us up? What are the ages from John Wyatt to Paxton right now?

Jackie Coleman: Yes. I'll be so impressed if I can get this right. They keep changing. How rude. They keep growing up. John Wyatt is 10, Olive is 8, but about to be nine in just a few days, Josie is 5, and then Pax is 2. It's fun and chaotic and a party everywhere we go. Not always a happy party but-

Laura Dugger: But a party nonetheless.

Jackie Coleman: But a party nonetheless.

Laura Dugger: Well, Jax, I'm sincere, you are one of the smartest humans I know, and I'd love to learn, how do you continue to sharpen yourself intellectually? [00:41:52]

Jackie Coleman: I don't think you're going to like my answer right now, but this is the honest answer. This honestly used to give me a lot of angst and still sometimes does, but my whole life was oriented around achievement, like intellect, grades, proving myself. But you know what? I'm in a season right now where I can barely squeak out a shower.

So while I love listening to podcasts, yours included, I do have time for that, I love your podcast, I do dive into the word daily. That is a must. And I blast worship music in the car with the kids. You should see a little Paxton who's legally blind, but musically inclined. Like he loves to sing. He belts out praise music. I love going to church Bible studies on Sunday and Wednesdays.

But honestly, I don't have a ton of margin to be super intellectual these days. I know that this is a season and you know what? That's okay. Whereas in the past, I think I would beat myself up for that and feel like I'm slacking and I'm getting dumb or, you know, I'm not, you know... [00:42:59]

God has been teaching me so much. Believe me, so much. And it hasn't been through the books or the classroom, the podcast that originally, you know, I think it comes from. But these life experiences that have just about killed me have taught me so much about faith and resilience and trust and God's faithfulness. So I'll take that in the season.

I think probably in the future there will be more margin for the things that I love. And I do love to read and I do love taking classes and I love to go to events and have adult conversations, but this just isn't my season for that. I really am okay with that.

Laura Dugger: That's so real. And yet I would even like to add a few that I'm hearing even through this conversation, your conversations where you're sharpening one another with these friends and doctors that you're in communication with. And then also you're talking about reading these medical journals. I think that is sharpening. And the sermons that you're metabolizing and the documentation. [00:44:02] I think it's such a part of you, Jax, that you may not even recognize that you're doing this every day.

Jackie Coleman: Yes, true.

Laura Dugger: Well, you know, we're called The Savvy Sauce because "savvy" is synonymous with practical knowledge. And so as my final question for you today, Jax, what is your savvy sauce?

Jackie Coleman: I love that question. I love that it comes at the end of all your podcasts. My savvy sauce in this season is to remember what the enemy meant for evil, He turns it for good. And you know what? I knew that was the song. I didn't actually remember where it came from. So I looked it up and you know where it's from. It's from Joseph. Genesis 50:20. "You intended to harm me, but God intended it all for good."

And that's such a good reminder we battle not against flesh and blood, and we need to remember that there's a much bigger battle taking place. And so it can be easy to see people or situations as our enemy, but I think we need to just keep our focus on what we truly are fighting for. And that's God's glory. Full stop. [00:45:14]

Laura Dugger: Yes and amen. But I'm going to actually read the verse following, Genesis 50:21, for you Jax. "So now do not be afraid. I will provide for you and support you and your little ones." So he comforted them, giving them encouragement and hope, and spoke with kindness to their hearts.

Jackie Coleman: Oh, that's just the best. I'm writing that one down. I'm going to put that in my car. I'm going to put that on my mirror. That's beautiful. Why did I full stop at Genesis 50:20?

Laura Dugger: Well, I had no idea what you would be sharing. And when you said that, I remember that's a full stop always. I've enjoyed that verse so much. And yet when I came across the one after it, it just pierces to you for your little ones. So I read to you through the amplified version.

Jackie Coleman: Oh, that makes me... I love that so much.[00:46:16]

Laura Dugger: This is what you have been saying the whole time: God is so good.

Jackie Coleman: God is so good, Laura.

Laura Dugger: Amen. Jackie, I've told you before, I remember the very first moment that we were introduced and I cannot express enough. I'm so grateful that we became instant friends and God has richly, richly, richly blessed me with your friendship. You are humble and hilarious and an absolute joy to spend time with and learn from. So thank you so much for being willing to be my returning guest today. I just love you so much, friend.

Jackie Coleman: Oh, I love you so much. And it's such an honor.

Laura Dugger: One more thing before you go. Have you heard the term "gospel" before? It simply means good news. And I want to share the best news with you. But it starts with the bad news. Every single one of us were born sinners, but Christ desires to rescue us from our sin, which is something we cannot do for ourselves. [00:47:21]

This means there is absolutely no chance we can make it to heaven on our own. So, for you and for me, it means we deserve death and we can never pay back the sacrifice we owe to be saved. We need a Savior.

But God loved us so much, He made a way for His only Son to willingly die in our place as the perfect substitute. This gives us hope of life forever in right relationship with Him. That is good news.

Jesus lived the perfect life we could never live and died in our place for our sin. This was God's plan to make a way to reconcile with us so that God can look at us and see Jesus. We can be covered and justified through the work Jesus finished if we choose to receive what He has done for us.

Romans 10.9 says that if you confess with your mouth Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. [00:48:26]

So would you pray with me now? Heavenly Father, thank You for sending Jesus to take our place. I pray someone today right now is touched and chooses to turn their life over to You. Will You clearly guide them and help them take their next step in faith to declare You as Lord of their life? We trust You to work and change lives now for eternity. In Jesus' name we pray. Amen.

If you prayed that prayer, you are declaring Him for me, so me for Him. You get the opportunity to live your life for Him. And at this podcast, we're called The Savvy Sauce for a reason. We want to give you practical tools to implement the knowledge you have learned. So you ready to get started?

First, tell someone. Say it out loud. Get a Bible. The first day I made this decision, my parents took me to Barnes & Noble and let me choose my own Bible. I selected the Quest NIV Bible, and I love it. You can start by reading the Book of John.

Also, get connected locally, which just means tell someone who's a part of a church in your community that you made a decision to follow Christ. [00:49:32] I'm assuming they will be thrilled to talk with you about further steps, such as going to church and getting connected to other believers to encourage you.

We want to celebrate with you too, so feel free to leave a comment for us here if you did make a decision to follow Christ. We also have show notes included where you can read Scripture that describes this process.

Finally, be encouraged. Luke 15:10 says, "In the same way, I tell you, there is rejoicing in the presence of the angels of God over one sinner who repents." The heavens are praising with you for your decision today.

If you've already received this good news, I pray that you have someone else to share it with today. You are loved and I look forward to meeting you here next time.

Welcome to The Savvy Sauce

Practical chats for intentional living

A faith-based podcast and resources to help you grow closer to Jesus and others. Expect encouragement, surprises, and hope here. Each episode offers lively interviews with fascinating guests such as therapists, authors, non-profit founders, and business leaders.

They share their best practices and savvy tips we can replicate to make our daily life and relationships more enjoyable!