**Transcription Below**

Psalms 34:7 (NIV) "The angel of the LORD encamps around those who fear him, and he delivers them."

Questions and Topics We Cover:

What was life like, growing up as an identical twin?
Will you share how He miraculously protected your sons multiple times?
Do you have any favorite stories that come to mind about Mark?

Brenda Dugger is a retired chief nursing executive and hospital administrator. She is married to Russ and they are the parents of three grown, married sons. They are also grandparents to 11 grandchildren.

Previous Episodes on The Savvy Sauce with Mark Dugger:

The Inside Scoop on Chick-fil-A with Mark Dugger

Thank You to Our Sponsor: Thank You to Our Sponsor: Dream Seller Travel, Megan Rokey

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Gospel Scripture: (all NIV)

Romans 3:23 “for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,”

Romans 3:24 “and are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus.”

Romans 3:25 (a) “God presented him as a sacrifice of atonement, through faith in his blood.”

Hebrews 9:22 (b) “without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness.”

Romans 5:8 “But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us.”

Romans 5:11 “Not only is this so, but we also rejoice in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have now received reconciliation.”

John 3:16 “For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.”

Romans 10:9 “That if you confess with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.”

Luke 15:10 says “In the same way, I tell you, there is rejoicing in the presence of the angels of God over one sinner who repents.”

Romans 8:1 “Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus”

Ephesians 1:13–14 “And you also were included in Christ when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation. Having believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit, who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God’s possession- to the praise of his glory.”

Ephesians 1:15–23 “For this reason, ever since I heard about your faith in the Lord Jesus and your love for all the saints, I have not stopped giving thanks for you, remembering you in my prayers. I keep asking that the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the glorious Father, may give you the spirit of wisdom and revelation, so that you may know him better. I pray also that the eyes of your heart may be enlightened in order that you may know the hope to which he has called you, the riches of his glorious inheritance in the saints, and his incomparably great power for us who believe. That power is like the working of his mighty strength, which he exerted in Christ when he raised him from the dead and seated him at his right hand in the heavenly realms, far above all rule and authority, power and dominion, and every title that can be given, not only in the present age but also in the one to come. And God placed all things under his feet and appointed him to be head over everything for the church, which is his body, the fullness of him who fills everything in every way.”

Ephesians 2:8–10 “For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith – and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God – not by works, so that no one can boast. For we are God‘s workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do.“

Ephesians 2:13 “But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far away have been brought near through the blood of Christ.“

Philippians 1:6 “being confident of this, that he who began a good work in you will carry it on to completion until the day of Christ Jesus.”

**Transcription**

[00:00:00] <music>

Laura Dugger: Welcome to The Savvy Sauce, where we have practical chats for intentional living. I'm your host Laura Dugger, and I'm so glad you're here.

[00:00:17] <music>

Laura Dugger: Do you love to travel? If so, then let me introduce you to today's sponsor, Dream Seller Travel, a Christian-owned and operated travel agency. Check them out on Facebook or online at DreamSellerTravel.com.

Well, this is a special conversation because it is with my dear mother-in-law. Brenda Dugger is my guest today, and she's a retired chief nursing executive and hospital administrator. When I met her and came into the family, she was the vice president at St. Mary's Hospital in Athens, Georgia. But even though that hospital is close to the University of Georgia, her loyalty remains with Georgia Tech, where her husband and three sons attended school.

She is married to the love of her life, Russ, and when they became grandparents, they requested to be referred to as Papa Bear and Mama Bear. [00:01:20] So that is what our family lovingly calls them. But for today, I'm pleased to introduce you to Brenda Dugger. Here's our chat.

Welcome to The Savvy Sauce, Brenda.

Brenda Dugger: Thank you, Laura. It is such a pleasure to be here with you today to talk about what my experience has been in the past and also to thank you for being such a loving and sweet daughter-in-law.

Laura Dugger: You're so sweet. I love you. I have been so excited about this conversation. But will you just begin by going back to your childhood and giving us a glimpse into what your life was like growing up?

Brenda Dugger: Well, I have been very, very blessed in my life. First, to be a twin, because that's how I started out. I am an identical twin. My dad was an identical twin, so he knew something about being a twin and how to treat twins and how to handle the issues that we had. [00:02:22]

But how blessed it is to be a part of someone who you started out life with but even at 76 years old, we're still wonderful buddies. We shop together. We talk to each other almost every day. And what a blessing that is that we have our lives to share together.

Her name is Glenda, by the way. Glenda, and mine is Brenda. We answered to anything from sister to twin when we were growing up. We also dressed alike until we were 18 years old. We are both registered nurses, and we have just enjoyed almost the same things.

Many times we go to a restaurant, even today, and we'll order exactly the same thing. And it's not because we're copying each other. It's just our likes are so compatible, so alike.

But I'm so blessed to be a twin. I'm blessed to be a mother, a grandmother, a mother-in-law, and certainly a believer because God has certainly been a part of my life and will, of course, always be a part of my life. [00:03:32]

Being a twin, to me, means being never alone. It's having somebody to talk to. She and I can communicate with each other without even having to say the words. I can look at her, and she will know generally what I mean and vice versa.

A funny story, when we were about 18 years old, we were in old Walgreens, and they had support poles beams in between the aisles, and they had mirrors around them. One time I was talking away from her, and all of a sudden I realized that there were people gathered around me looking, and I was talking into the mirror to my sister. It was great.

But even going to school, we hated to be separated. They were going through a time of, oh, twins should be separated and in different rooms. And we were in first grade, and we had our desk, and I was crying, and Glenda was crying. She was in another classroom across the hall. [00:04:40]

And so even the teachers dragged our desk up to the very edge of the door and opposite each other so we could see and wave each other. Didn't work, though. No, no, we had to be in the same class, or we would just cry all day. We had been together all through elementary school, and then in high school, we had some separate classes. But then we chose to go to nursing school together and enjoyed that.

Laura Dugger: I'm also curious, because faith is such a meaningful part of your life, were you and Glenda saved at the same time? Did you surrender your life to Jesus around the same time, or was that totally separate?

Brenda Dugger: No, there again, we are twins. And so we think and have been through most of our experiences similarly. We grew up, and my mother was ill and in and out of the hospital a lot when we were growing up. [00:05:42] And Glenda and I learned very quickly that we leaned on each other, and we leaned on God.

I remember so well the ambulance came for my mother and took her away, and just she was crying and Dad was crying, and we just felt like the world was falling apart. But we hugged each other and we cried out to God to help us and to get us through it. And that was at a very early age.

We both accepted Christ and was baptized when we were 10 years old. And a lot of that had to do with my dad. He had great faith, and he loved my mother so, so dearly, and stood by her all those years of when she was emotionally and physically ill. So I'm grateful to him for my religious faith, and I'm also grateful to the Lord that He got us through all those times.

Laura Dugger: Well, are you also willing to share when she was in a nursing home toward the end of her life, is that right?

Brenda Dugger: Yes.

Laura Dugger: But your dad did something special every day. [00:06:51]

Brenda Dugger: He certainly did. Mother was in a nursing home, and the nursing home was just down the hill, literally a little small hill, and the other facility, assisted living, Dad was in... This was only in their early 70s. Mother was placed in a nursing home when she was 70 because he couldn't keep her at home anymore. But every day, Dad would go down to the nursing home and visit Mother.

And he would bring her something. It might be a cookie off of his meal tray. It might be a cookie or it might be a piece of candy that he had saved back, or it might be a flower or whatever. But he brought her a present, something to give her every day.

Laura Dugger: I love that love story. Let's take a quick break to hear a message from our sponsor.

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Laura Dugger: I think it's so endearing. I remember first coming into the family and finding out that you were an identical twin, and like you said, even your names, Brenda and Glenda, and then your father was Elvin, and his brother was Melvin. Just so sweet. I've always been fascinated by twins. [00:10:03]

I majored in psychology, so I remember learning about these case studies, even where twins would be separated at birth and raised separately, and when you would find them as adults, their nature was so similar. And like you said, they would even order the same things or just have some uncanny similarities.

So I have prayed for as long as I can remember to have identical twin girls, and God didn't see fit to put that as our family story, but I love that I married into a family with identical twin girls. So thank you for sharing those sweet stories.

But you and Russ have now been married many years, and you have three grown sons who are all married with 11 grandchildren. And if we pause, though, that's the picture now. So if we rewind back to you being a relatively new mom of young boys, I know from the stories that you've shared that God really had a special hand of protection on them. [00:11:10] So will you share how he miraculously protected your sons several times?

Brenda Dugger: I certainly will. Having three sons and only having just the one twin sister, I really would have loved to have had little girls, you know, to dress them up and be frilly and whatever. Well, I prayed for girls, but God didn't see it that way, so I had the first boy, the second boy, and here comes the third boy.

But you know what? He was so special. The first moment I held him, he cuddled and was just so sweet and has been so special to me. Of course, I'm talking about Mark, Laura's husband, my baby. But what a special time that has been.

But, you know, having boys, I remember so well a story my grandmother told me, the mother of my dad and his twin brother. [00:12:11] She was protective over her two sons as well. And when they went into the service for World War II, they actually wanted to be pilots.

So my grandmother, though, told me years later that she intercepted the letter of acceptance for their being a pilot and didn't tell them until they had enlisted a year later in the regular Army because she didn't want her boys to be lost, both of them being pilots in the war. So I kind of understand that you want to protect your sons.

My protective nature, I think, is because of the twin issue, Glenda was kind of the more adventurous type, and I was more of the protector. Even today, I protect her, not as a helicopter sister or a hoverer or whatever, but I just want to make sure, being the oldest twin by 15 minutes, of just wanting to make sure she's okay. [00:13:16]

But going back to the stories about the boys, my first two were 21 months apart. It was summertime, and we went to the gas station, and I was filling up the car, and my oldest, Greg, was 2 years old, he was in the car seat, and my youngest was 2 months old, and he was in the baby infant seat at that point. Then we could have them in the front seat.

So I filled up with gas and ran and pulled up near the office to pay. So I ran in the office to pay, and I no longer had a foot in that office but I heard a crash and turned around, and my car was suspended up on top of the gas pump. And all I could think of was the car was going to explode, the car was going to explode.

But I ran out there, and my 2-year-old had gotten out of his car seat, crawled over the front seat, and disengaged the gear shift, put it out of park, and had guided the car over the gas pump. [00:14:28] But the boys were fine. Fortunately, it was a new station, and so they had an automatic cutoff on the gas pump. Unfortunately, it was a brand-new pump, and I paid dearly to have it replaced.

Laura Dugger: Oh my goodness.

Brenda Dugger: Another story about the boys was Jimmy, my middle son, we had just moved into a new house and had the preacher coming over for dinner that night. The boys had been playing outside, and they were playing hide-and-go-seek. Well, the older boy, Greg, 2 years older than Jimmy, he was 5 and Jimmy was 3, and he came in the house, and he said, "I can't find Jimmy. I can't find Jimmy." And so we looked everywhere. Everywhere we looked for him.

And it was hot that day. It was in May, and it was probably 90-something outside already. So we were looking for Jimmy, and finally, after it seemed like 30 minutes, I'm sure it was not that long, but Greg came up out of the basement, and he said, "Mommy, I heard the angels, and they told me that Jimmy was in the car." [00:15:42]

We went outside to the car, it was a little Toyota Corolla, and it was the kind that you could get into the trunk without having a key or without opening the car and opening the trunk. So Jimmy, at 3 years old, had climbed into the trunk and had shut the door, and it was over 100 degrees in there.

He was trying to kick himself out. We didn't hear him. He had cut his foot so badly, so badly that he had stitches. When we opened the car door, he was gray. He couldn't speak. He had already wet himself. I mean, he was as near death as we could have imagined.

Brought him in the house, bathed him off, and rushed him to the hospital. But I'm positive that the angels guided my sweet big boy to tell me where he was so that we could find him.

Laura Dugger: Goodness gracious, that brings tears to my eyes every single time. [00:16:43] It makes me think of this verse from Psalm 34:7. And it's one that we pray over our girls, especially when we're more aware of safety if we're separated for a period of time. But I feel like your story really brings this to life.

It says, "The angel of the Lord encamps around those who fear him, and he delivers them." And I'm so grateful he delivered Jimmy that day. And that wasn't your last run-in to the hospital, especially with Jimmy. He's had so many stitches.

Brenda Dugger: He really has. Jimmy was playing basketball for his high school team and Mark, our youngest, six years younger than Jimmy, was at another basketball game. Of course, we went to Mark's game first.

And so while we were there, I got a page on the hospital pager, and it was telling us that Jimmy had been injured, and so badly injured that he went up for a layup shot and then got caught by another player's elbow, and his head hit the floor so hard that the audience heard his head crack. [00:17:56]

So we met them at the hospital, and Jimmy could not remember who he was or what day it was or whatever. He just kept asking, "Did we win? Did we win?" He was okay after about three days. But what a terrible, terrible accident it was. Of course, for us not having been right there with him, it was quite a shock, but he survived.

Laura Dugger: Well, and I'm sure your medical background came in so helpful countless times for all of the boys. But I do remember you laughingly sharing one time, too, "Oh, they knew us at the emergency room by the first name."

Brenda Dugger: Oh, they did. They did, yes. And those follow-up questions of, Well, have you had any other injuries lately?

Laura Dugger: Mercifully, they were brought up in a very loving home, but three boys together, that can be rambunctious, I'm sure. [00:18:55]

Have you checked out our library of articles available at thesavvysauce.com? New posts are added multiple times a month related to parenting, intimacy in marriage, personal development, habits, and other topics connected to what we discuss here on The Savvy Sauce. If you sign up to join our email list, you're also going to enjoy little extras delivered straight to your inbox.

Our hope is to encourage you to have your own practical chats for intentional living. So these freebies will include things like questions that you can ask on your next date night, safe resources to read to promote enjoyment in your intimacy and marriage, or questions to ask your kids to connect at a more relational level. We hope you check out all the available reads at thesavvysauce.com under the Articles tab.

Well, Mark has been a guest on The Savvy Sauce before, and he co-hosts from time to time, so people are probably already a little familiar with him. [00:19:53] But I would love to hear one of your favorite stories about him as well. So do you have anything that comes to mind?

Brenda Dugger: Well, Mark, as I said, he cuddled with me the first moment that he was born. And he has been just as loving and as considerate. He's very much a pleaser. He worked with the other boys. Now, he had a lot of rough times with the boys, putting up with two older brothers, one six and one eight years older than him. But he was just always such a joy and remains a joy to our lives.

He gave us some scares along the way. One of the times was when he was about 4 months old, changed his diaper, and there was a big old hernia. And being a nurse, I covered that hernia up just like, Oh, Lord, please take it away, please take it away. But he didn't, and so we had to have surgery. [00:20:53] But it was like I had... oh, to hand that baby over to the surgeon and to the nurses there was just awful. But he survived and did well.

The other time that he really scared us was we went to Alcatraz and visited the old prison in San Francisco. We took a boat ferry out to the Alcatraz, and we took the tour, and everybody had their headphones on, listening from cell to cell and hearing the noises of the old prison where they used to eat and what the stories were within the cells and what some of the men had done. And all of a sudden, I looked around, and Mark was gone. He was gone.

Well, we had gotten engrossed in listening to the stories of Alcatraz, and he had too, and so he had wandered off. We looked all over that prison. [00:21:55] And, of course, all I could think of at that point was somebody was going to get him just having heard all those horrible stories. But we found him, and I held on to him like never before.

Laura Dugger: Yes, because I believe he was only 8 years old at that time.

Brenda Dugger: He was.

Laura Dugger: And he said he remembers that [clunk?] sound.

Brenda Dugger: Oh, absolutely. They had the sound effects of the cells closing and being cut off from everybody, and the mean men were there. It was frightening for him and frightening for us, too.

Mark not only meant and still means to us his loving nature. He shares that with other people. I recently went to a lady's dinner at our church, and a lady came up to me, and she said, "Are you Mark Dugger's mother?" And I said, "Yes." And she said, "Well, I'm Miss Esby." [00:22:54]

Miss Esby was his preschool teacher of long, long ago, and she remembered how wonderful he was. And what she said about him, I updated her that he had four little girls and that he was living in Illinois and that he was happy. And her one first comment about him was, "I bet he's the best father."

Laura Dugger: She is absolutely right. He is a wonderful husband and father. I love that so much. I remember another story that one of his baseball coaches at the end of the year had said, "You know, Dugger was one of my favorite players to ever coach because he's so coachable."

Brenda Dugger: Yeah, that's right. He was.

Laura Dugger: And he was adaptable.

Brenda Dugger: So loved. So well thought of. The fact that he's mentoring now so many young people in his role at Chick-fil-A and then teaching his own daughters and now soon to teach a program at church, it's so fitting. [00:24:04]

Laura Dugger: Well, you clearly share a love for Mark. But are there any other stories that you want to share just in general of God sustaining you throughout your life?

Brenda Dugger: Oh, there were so many times that God has intervened. One of the stories that's so dear to me is that when my dad's mother and father were elderly, my grandfather was near death, but my grandmother was certainly by his bedside all the time. But she had related to me that she didn't want to have to see him take his last breath.

Well, I went to visit him in the hospital and stayed with her. I happened to be there on the day that he died, and she was by herself. We went to lunch and came back, and when we came back, there was a definite difference in his breathing, and he had gone downhill very quickly. [00:25:04]

So there were nurses scurrying around. His blood pressure was dropping. He was only breathing intermittently, and doctors were coming in and out and whatever. And I looked over in the chair, and my grandmother was asleep and so peaceful. And my grandfather, he just took his last breath, and he died so peacefully, and I was able to say to my grandmother, "Mama, he's gone."

What a gift that was to God. One, that she was not by herself, and two, that my grandfather died so peacefully, and she did not see him take his last breath, but was there.

Laura Dugger: It's just incredible because God truly delights in every detail of our lives. And what a unique longing that she had, and He was so merciful to grant that.

Brenda Dugger: Absolutely. It reminds me of my favorite verse, Psalms 103:8-10. [00:26:04] "The Lord is compassionate and gracious, slow to anger, abounding in love. He will not always be the accuser, nor will he harbor any grudges forever. He does not treat us as we deserve for our sins, nor repay us according to what we deserve in our iniquities." How blessed we are that God doesn't hold grudges.

Laura Dugger: Amen to that. I love that so much. Thank you for sharing that scripture. You are already familiar we're called The Savvy Sauce because "savvy" is synonymous with practical knowledge. And so as my final question for you today, what is your savvy sauce?

Brenda Dugger: Well, my savvy sauce is a good, good friend of mine who recently passed away, she had given me this example quite a while ago. But it was to accept or alienate. I learned that so well in nursing school. [00:27:06] You don't treat people according to their wealth or whether they're dirty or whether they cause their illness or whether they're pleasant or whether they're happy or whatever.

You have to accept people as they are and where they are and why they are where they are. That has helped me a lot. You can't change people. You don't challenge them. I rarely have political discussions because you're not going to change people about how they feel about their political convictions or where they are. But they're all different. We're all God's children, whether we're red, yellow, black, and white, or whatever our religion is. God loves us and loves us for what we are.

I also have used that theology in the way that I treat my adult children. You've given them all you can give them by the time they're grown. And then you just let God take over. He's got a plan. [00:28:08] It has to be their plan. And usually, their plans are so good. And even if you don't understand them, you can ask questions about them, give them suggestions, and they're always open to those. But just accept what they want to do and support them, love them, and care for them wherever they are.

Laura Dugger: We're grateful recipients of that. This time has been such a treasure to get to preserve this conversation. And I adore you. I love you so much. And I'm grateful that you're my mother-in-law. I'm so thankful for all these stories that you shared and your faithfulness to the Lord because that is leaving an eternal impact on generations yet to even come. So I love you and thank you for being my guest.

Brenda Dugger: Well, thank you, Laura, and thank you for being my daughter. Because I could not ask for a better prayer warrior. When I have something to pray for, and she does the same for me, we text each other and tell each other what we're praying for, what we're thinking about. [00:29:17]

And one of the special things that I have to tell you that she does, one of the things that was so hard for me was having Mark live so far away and then having the children that I couldn't see but once, probably two or three times a year. But Laura sends me pictures every day of the girls. Who could ask for more?

Laura Dugger: Thank you.

One more thing before you go. Have you heard the term "gospel" before? It simply means good news. And I want to share the best news with you. But it starts with the bad news. Every single one of us were born sinners, but Christ desires to rescue us from our sin, which is something we cannot do for ourselves.

This means there is absolutely no chance we can make it to heaven on our own. So, for you and for me, it means we deserve death and we can never pay back the sacrifice we owe to be saved. [00:30:18] We need a Savior.

But God loved us so much, He made a way for His only Son to willingly die in our place as the perfect substitute. This gives us hope of life forever in right relationship with Him. That is good news.

Jesus lived the perfect life we could never live and died in our place for our sin. This was God's plan to make a way to reconcile with us so that God can look at us and see Jesus. We can be covered and justified through the work Jesus finished if we choose to receive what He has done for us.

Romans 10.9 says that if you confess with your mouth Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved.

So would you pray with me now? Heavenly Father, thank You for sending Jesus to take our place. I pray someone today right now is touched and chooses to turn their life over to You. [00:31:22] Will You clearly guide them and help them take their next step in faith to declare You as Lord of their life? We trust You to work and change lives now for eternity. In Jesus' name we pray. Amen.

If you prayed that prayer, you are declaring Him for me, so me for Him. You get the opportunity to live your life for Him.

And at this podcast, we're called The Savvy Sauce for a reason. We want to give you practical tools to implement the knowledge you have learned. So you ready to get started?

First, tell someone. Say it out loud. Get a Bible. The first day I made this decision, my parents took me to Barnes & Noble and let me choose my own Bible. I selected the Quest NIV Bible, and I love it. You can start by reading the Book of John.

Also, get connected locally, which just means tell someone who's a part of a church in your community that you made a decision to follow Christ. I'm assuming they will be thrilled to talk with you about further steps, such as going to church and getting connected to other believers to encourage you. [00:32:24]

We want to celebrate with you too, so feel free to leave a comment for us here if you did make a decision to follow Christ. We also have show notes included where you can read Scripture that describes this process.

Finally, be encouraged. Luke 15:10 says, "In the same way, I tell you, there is rejoicing in the presence of the angels of God over one sinner who repents." The heavens are praising with you for your decision today.

If you've already received this good news, I pray that you have someone else to share it with today. You are loved and I look forward to meeting you here next time.

Welcome to The Savvy Sauce

Practical chats for intentional living

A faith-based podcast and resources to help you grow closer to Jesus and others. Expect encouragement, surprises, and hope here. Each episode offers lively interviews with fascinating guests such as therapists, authors, non-profit founders, and business leaders.

They share their best practices and savvy tips we can replicate to make our daily life and relationships more enjoyable!