78. Parenting the Prodigal Child And God’s Desire For Redemption With Mother-Daughter Duo, Claire Stanfill and Tindell Baldwin
*Disclaimer: This episode contains mild thematic material and is intended for mature listeners only*
**Transcription Below**
“Am I now trying to win the favor and approval of men, or of God? Or am I seeking to please someone? If I were still trying to be popular with men, I would not be a bond-servant of Christ.”
Galatians 1:10 (Amp)
Claire Stanfill is an Atlanta native, married to Tom for 36 years. They have 4 married children and 12 grandkids. She was a stay at home mom but now is an empty nester, even though she still stays ever so busy with family. Claire loves to do anything creative, sit on the beach, and enjoy quiet days at home where she can recharge.
Tindell Baldwin has a heart for teenagers to see the ugly side of sin and the amazing redemptive power of a Savior who desperately loves them. She is author of “Popular: Boys, Booze, and Jesus” where she tells her honest account of a life without God and the lies she believed that lead her to search for fulfillment and acceptance at any cost. She volunteers as a small group leader for high school girls at her church. Her love of writing and truth is only matched by her love for her family and most days you can find her at home with her three kids and husband in Marietta, GA (and baby #4 is on the way!!!). For more about Tindell and her ministry visit, www.tindellbaldwin.com
At The Savvy Sauce, we will only recommend resources we believe in! We also want you to be aware: We are a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for us to earn fees by linking to Amazon.com and affiliated sites.
Connect on Socials: @tindellgrace @clairestanfill
Jesus paid it all, sung by Kristian Stanfill
BUMPS:
Budget
Upcoming Week
Marriage
Parenting
Spirituality
Thank You to Our Sponsor: Peoria Christian School
Connect with The Savvy Sauce on Facebook or Instagram or Our Website
Please help us out by sharing this episode with a friend, leaving a 5-star rating and review, and subscribing to this podcast!
Gospel Scripture: (all NIV)
Romans 3:23 “for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,”
Romans 3:24 “and are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus.”
Romans 3:25 (a) “God presented him as a sacrifice of atonement, through faith in his blood.”
Hebrews 9:22 (b) “without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness.”
Romans 5:8 “But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us.”
Romans 5:11 “Not only is this so, but we also rejoice in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have now received reconciliation.”
John 3:16 “For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.”
Romans 10:9 “That if you confess with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.”
Luke 15:10 says “In the same way, I tell you, there is rejoicing in the presence of the angels of God over one sinner who repents.”
Romans 8:1 “Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus”
Ephesians 1:13–14 “And you also were included in Christ when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation. Having believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit, who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God’s possession- to the praise of his glory.”
Ephesians 1:15–23 “For this reason, ever since I heard about your faith in the Lord Jesus and your love for all the saints, I have not stopped giving thanks for you, remembering you in my prayers. I keep asking that the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the glorious Father, may give you the spirit of wisdom and revelation, so that you may know him better. I pray also that the eyes of your heart may be enlightened in order that you may know the hope to which he has called you, the riches of his glorious inheritance in the saints, and his incomparably great power for us who believe. That power is like the working of his mighty strength, which he exerted in Christ when he raised him from the dead and seated him at his right hand in the heavenly realms, far above all rule and authority, power and dominion, and every title that can be given, not only in the present age but also in the one to come. And God placed all things under his feet and appointed him to be head over everything for the church, which is his body, the fullness of him who fills everything in every way.”
Ephesians 2:8–10 “For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith – and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God – not by works, so that no one can boast. For we are God‘s workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do.“
Ephesians 2:13 “But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far away have been brought near through the blood of Christ.“
Philippians 1:6 “being confident of this, that he who began a good work in you will carry it on to completion until the day of Christ Jesus.”
**Transcription**
[00:00:01] <music>
Laura Dugger: Welcome to The Savvy Sauce, where we have practical chats for intentional living. I'm your host Laura Dugger, and I'm so glad you're here.
[00:00:17] <music>
Laura Dugger: Today's message is not intended for little ears. We'll be discussing some adult themes and I want you to be aware before you listen to this message.
I want to say thank you to our sponsor, Peoria Christian School. They are raising a generation of 21st-century Christian leaders right here in central Illinois. Visit their website at peoriachristian.org. Thanks for your sponsorship.
It's fun to have our first mother-daughter duo as guests. I know you will enjoy this vulnerable chat with Claire Stanfill and Tindell Baldwin. Whether you're a teenager currently or you're parenting a teen, this chat is for you. Prepare to hear the wisdom that comes after seasons of heartache and to be inspired by God's story of redemption.
Here's our chat.
Welcome to the Savvy Sauce, Claire and Tindell.
Claire Stanfill: Thank you.
Tindell Baldwin: Thank you. Glad to be here. [00:01:17]
Laura Dugger: Well, let's just start by having both of you introduce yourselves and then give us a snapshot of who you are. So, Claire, you are the mother here. We're going to start with you.
Claire Stanfill: I've lived in Atlanta all my life and my husband has too. At 18, I was saved but still had a very rebellious spirit. So went away to college and was in and out of my walk. I got pregnant after dating my husband now for a few weeks and we were married three weeks later. So we had known each other approximately six weeks. Crazy.
Now we've been married 36 years and we had four children in six and a half years. Now we're empty nesters. So we've come full circle. All my children live in Atlanta, all four of them, and I get to see them a lot. We have 12 grandkids. Right now I'm caring for my mom, who's older and struggling, so that's kind of my focus, my family, my kids, my grandkids, whoever needs me. [00:02:22]
Laura Dugger: Tindell, what about you?
Tindell Baldwin: Born and raised in Marietta, just a little bit outside of Atlanta. Had three brothers. Went to Auburn for college. That's where my husband and I met. And I was saved at Auburn freshman year of college. We've been married almost 10 years now and have three kids: Claire, named after my mom actually, is six, Briggs is four and a half, and Colby is our spunky two-year-old.
Out of college, I kind of realized that because of my life's journey and when I became a Christian, I really loved helping teenagers. So shortly after graduating, I started writing a book for teenagers, just my story of becoming a Christian. When I was 25, it got published. It's called Popular.
For the past eight or so years, I've been doing high school ministry in some way, shape, or form, speaking, writing. I have a group of high school girls at our church and that's kind of what I love doing. But my main gig is mom of three. I stay home with them and kind of do the other stuff on the side, but love getting to be a Mom to my little ones. [00:03:27] Yes. Yeah.
Laura Dugger: Love it. Your book was incredible. You are a gifted writer. You two have just been on quite the journey and I think you're going to encourage so many parents and teenagers today. So, Tindell, let's go back to your memoir that you wrote about growing up in a wealthy suburb outside of Atlanta, like you mentioned, and all these pressures that you faced. I really appreciate your willingness to be so transparent. So will you just share a bit of your story with us?
Tindell Baldwin: Yeah. So for me being raised in a Christian family, I had an understanding of God. I knew who God was, but I more knew who He was in my family's life. Not so much maybe in my life. I kind of looked at God like Santa Claus. Like I asked Him for things and when He didn't deliver, I kind of stopped believing.
Growing up with three brothers who were super achieving, I kind of didn't know where I fit into the mix. So my answer was to rebel and kind of go my own way. I was like, "If I can't be as good as them, I'll kind of do my own thing." So I thought the best way to do this would be to chase popularity. [00:04:33] I wanted the classic kind of high school things. I wanted to go to the parties. I wanted to have a boyfriend. I wanted to have the big group of friends.
So I kind of decided freshman year of high school that I was going to chase after that, no matter the cost. And so I did for three-plus years. Or really, no. More. Like five. Chased after being popular, being accepted, and everything that that looked like in high school.
It took me down super dark roads. And that's why I was kind of driven to write the book, is because I felt like there wasn't a great portrayal of what high school actually looked like running away from Jesus and the really dark side of sin. And so I wanted to give my school girls, especially an honest account of what it looked like to walk away from the Lord and what it looked like to actually pursue those things and what it looked like to be really entangled in sin.
Because I went from, you know, growing up in a great Christian home at 15, still going to church, and then by 18 my life was pretty much a total train wreck. I was pretty much addicted to alcohol. I was smoking weed every day before school. I've been sleeping with my boyfriend and that had led to a breakup and heartbreak and then just continually giving my body away as a way to try to get love. [00:05:38]
I just went down all these avenues basically looking for love and acceptance and hoping that they would satisfy and fulfill. And they didn't. I felt like I had this secret, like this understanding of what it actually looked like to walk away from God. I didn't feel like that was being portrayed accurately to high schoolers. You know, media and now social media portrays that lifestyle as just so fulfilling and wonderful and like you get all these things that you want. And I just felt like I had an in. Like I knew that that wasn't true and I wanted girls to see that.
Laura Dugger: So even when you were in it... so you achieved these things. You were popular, you had the boyfriend, had all the things that you were pursuing. Even in those moments in high school, did you know that you weren't satisfied?
Tindell Baldwin: Again, it was temporary. I could feel good quickly or I could feel better right now but it was only induced by substances or parties or boys. When I sat with myself, when I sat alone, or when I sat to journal, the only thing that came out was pain. It was so temporary and fake. You know, I always worry about losing my social standing. It's like, yeah, I was popular, but if they stopped liking me, I wouldn't be popular anymore. It's like, yeah, I had a boyfriend, but he could break up with me any day. [00:06:47] And like, yeah, some people thought I was pretty, but that could go away too.
Everything felt so like I was living on the edge of falling off at any moment. So I think when I would sit back and reflect, I knew, but I mean, there was enough distraction to stay satisfied for as long as I needed to.
Laura Dugger: That's well said. I think a lot of teenage girls maybe are relating to that and they're in that season right now. I'd love to transition to you, Claire, as the mom. Let's hear your side now as we just go back a few years to when she was a teenager and life started changing in your household. What was your first red flag that you were going to be facing new issues with your daughter that you had never encountered before with your sons?
Claire Stanfill: Right. It's crazy. My past almost completely mirrored Tindell's. Before we even discovered anything, I felt her slipping away, I felt her not wanting to communicate with me as she had always. I almost was in denial because I was so afraid she was going to do what I did. [00:07:54] I was so afraid to speak up and say, "I've been there, Tindell. This is going to lead to a dead end of pain and consequences."
So I kept it to myself a lot, but the signals got very strong. I mean, first, a friend of hers came over and showed us that Tindell had a water bottle filled with vodka. I mean obviously, that's a tremendous change in our daughter and the direction she's going. Her clothes, her friends, her music, and in general just her spirit, all you could tell we're going down into a dark place.
She was dressing very provocatively. She was making fun of our Christian walk or music. In fact, we would go on trips, and in the car we would usually play like an Andy Stanley sermon or whoever, and Tindell was really good at putting her earphones on, but cranking her music up, which was rap, as loud as she could. [00:09:06] So with the sermon, we heard the rap. It was like Andy versus rap.
We knew we just had to let her find her way and not shove it down her throat. But we knew what was going on. The boys told us, "This is what we see. This is what we hear." Then I got a couple of phone calls from people telling me things. And there again, I was somewhat in denial, but then when the vodka appeared, you know, it was like, Okay, we're in this.
Laura Dugger: That's one of the first times it became real.
Claire Stanfill: Yes, very.
Laura Dugger: What did your conversations and prayer life even look like behind closed doors with your husband or with your friends and mentors during this time when it seemed like nobody could get through to your daughter?
Claire Stanfill: You know, I felt like we were truly in a tug-of-war with Satan. The more we pulled, the more our feet seemed to lose ground. Coming down hard on Tindell, it didn't seem to open her eyes at all. [00:10:06] I spent tons and tons of time on my knees and just begging God to give me the intuition, the insight for the Holy Spirit to really speak to me.
I think because I had actually lived through it myself, I knew when things weren't right. And I just was begging God to really show me and help me catch her, help me prevent terrible things from happening. I was begging Him to bring her back to His fold, to love her back in, and for her heart to turn. But truly, it was evil against good.
Tindell Baldwin: And I got to the point, she would actually warn me not to do something, and because she had been right enough times, I would like... she was like, "Don't go to that party," and I mean, everyone at the party would get arrested. It got to the point where I was like, "I don't know if I believe in this God thing, but you got something that I have to trust because she would, I mean, be right without fail. It was crazy.
Claire Stanfill: When that developed, it was slowly, but surely Tindell would see that happen and she was willing to say, Okay, maybe I shouldn't go do that. [00:11:11] So that was later. In the beginning, she was figuring out ways to fool us, leaving the house in one outfit, with another outfit that was so tiny it fit into her purse.
Laura Dugger: Well, I'm just wondering, as a mom, what was that like when you knew, let's use that example, you knew that she was going to be changing. Was that emotional for you, or how did you even start to release control of that?
Claire Stanfill: Yes, great question. We realized that coming down on the little things like her outfits might be fruitless and push her farther away. Our whole goal was to nurture and develop a relationship with her, no matter what she was doing. Of course, she was punished. We got very creative with every time we caught her, and that was very often. But we were just so focused on, "We want you, Tindell, to know we love you like God loves you and you can do anything and we're still going to love you. Yes, you're breaking our heart, but our heart is still for you." [00:12:17]
Laura Dugger: There's so much wisdom there. And I'm wondering for you, Tindell, was it harder when your parents came down on you and punished you or was it harder when they extended grace?
Tindell Baldwin: Oh, what a great question. It was for sure harder when they extended grace. Because when they came down on me, I could be angry. When they extended grace, like, what are you going to be angry about with grace? I mean, they always were trying to maintain a relationship with me. That was always clear. And they also, towards the end of high school, were just trying to save my life.
So things like my outfit were the least of their concerns as much as like, "we want you to come home alive." Their ongoing grace and unconditional love are markers in my mind of that period of my life.
Laura Dugger: That's incredible. Was there any hope that was given to you during this season or advice or scripture that you clung to?
Claire Stanfill: Lots. We did get lots of advice from well-meaning friends and family. Most of the time they were saying we were doing everything wrong, we needed to do this. And this was people that hadn't really had experience with this anyway. [00:13:23] So we had to choose who we listened to.
I did get hope in the fact that God was speaking to me, just assuring me that He had her. And it was an overwhelming feeling. There were many days, don't get me wrong, that I was like, Okay, this is going to end terrible. Because like Tindell said, we were at certain times trying to save her life. She became so depressed and things like that.
But there just were glimmers of hope that either she would open up to us... You know, we would have a fun family time or something that just enabled us to think, Okay, there's the Tindell we know. I held on to quite a few scriptures, and one of them was from Matthew, Come to me all you who are weary and heavy burdened, and I will give you rest. And I know everybody knows that, but I felt a tremendous weight as the mom.
I feel like Satan was using the fact that I had not shared where I had been in my past, constantly bringing that up to my face, going, "Well, you did it. She's going to do it and there's nothing you can do. What you're doing is not good enough. This is going to end up in a complete disaster." [00:14:41]
I mean, there were times we had no hope, but yet that's when I just went to scripture. And the lies are thrown at you right and left. I really learned to take a thought captive. And those were usually lies. and to then replace that thought with a truth, which is scripture.
I would turn on worship music. Anything I could do to turn my mind around. Because I know as just a mom, women, we're emotional and our emotions can so direct how we handle things. I really did spend hours on my knees and in the Word.
Well, I also got hope, interestingly enough, from our oldest son, Kristian, who was engaged to Kerri. She was living in our house when all this was going on. And thankfully, Tindell really leaned into Kerri and shared a lot of what was going on. So Kerri had a little more insight. Tindell was very real with her. But Kerri kept telling me, It's going to be okay, Claire. This is going to end well. [00:15:51]
She has a great intuition and insight and understanding. She's just a wonderful, godly wife and woman. The more she told me that, the more I believed it. I was like, "Lord, you keep telling me this," because I really saw that as from the Lord. Our sons said the same thing. She would talk to them every now and then, and Kristian and Taylor especially would say, "It's going to be okay, Mom."
Laura Dugger: Isn't that interesting how that encouragement meant so much more and was actually more accurate than a lot of the advice that was given?
Claire Stanfill: Exactly. I know.
Laura Dugger: And now a brief message from our sponsor.
Sponsor: This sponsor is particularly special to our editor, Natalie, because this is the school where her husband teaches and her children attend. Peoria Christian School, grades pre-K through 12, offers a Christ-centered, award-winning education for students. They believe eternity matters, and so they want to share the importance of knowing the Lord personally. [00:16:56]
PCS supports the Christian home and church by teaching from a biblical worldview. Their caring faculty and staff infuses God's truths through every area of the day, not just in daily Bible classes or in weekly chapels.
Peoria Christian students engage in active learning through STEAM, bring your own device in high school, and so much more. The Peoria Christian Elementary School was named a 2017 National Blue Ribbon School of Excellence, and the high school was named a 2018 National Blue Ribbon Exemplary High Performing School.
PCS students grow in every aspect through their safe environment as teachers share their faith throughout the day. It is another place where your student hears and sees how to live with a Christ-like attitude and develop biblically-based character. The students are academically challenged and spiritually equipped for the next phase of life as lifelong learners.
Peoria Christian School is raising a generation of 21st-century Christian leaders. Visit their website at peoriachristian.org and schedule a campus tour today. Thanks for your sponsorship. [00:18:02]
Laura Dugger: Tindell, what about you? Were there any times during this process that your heart softened toward God as you sensed that He was pursuing you even in the midst of the month?
Tindell Baldwin: I mean, honestly, as far as things of faith, I had pretty much shut that door and kind of thought, like, maybe I'll get back to God when I'm older. But the markers of unconditional love did make me stop and think. Like, because my friends in my circle or the friends I had kind of in my worldly life, you know, love was always conditional. If you stopped performing, you were kicked out of the circle. I mean, there was always for performance to go with the love. You know, if I stopped sleeping with my boyfriend, he was going to break up with me. There was just all these things.
But with my family, I treated them horribly, was completely rebellious and disobedient, and yet they had this continual love and pursuit to love me, which was such a perfect picture of how God treats us that it did make me stop and think. And not necessarily even to point to God, but to think, like, they have something different that clearly my friends don't have. [00:19:02]
I had some great friends who I'm still friends with now, but for the most part, my life was so conditional. Everything in my world, as high school honestly kind of is, like, very conditional.
One time in particular, after my long-term high school boyfriend had broken up with me, and I was super distraught, and I was at lunch with my dad when I got the phone call that he was breaking up with me. And it was because I had gotten drunk and cheated on him. I mean, I deserved it. It was all brought on me by myself.
My dad kind of knew the backstory and they had known this was, again, something I brought on myself. And I came home from a friend's house, and they had put a dozen red roses on my bedside table just with a note that said, "You're dearly loved." It was the perfect time to shake their finger in my face and be like, "This is what happens when you don't listen. This is what happens when you live this life." But instead, they took that opportunity to love on me in such a tangible way that it was, again, such a marker in my head of – why would they love me? Like, why on earth would they do something like this for me? [00:20:05]
So it was things like that that did make me stop and think. Then there was a few towards the end of high school, maybe my senior year, a few people from my past at church, like back in middle school, sent me prayer books and notes and just things that, "Hey, I was praying, and your name came to my mind." People I hadn't talked to in years who just made the effort to reach out and just send me something was just a reminder. It was like God reminding me, like, I haven't forgotten you. You might have forgotten me, but I'm not done with you.
Then my oldest brother, Kristian, would say consistently, "God's going to do something amazing in your life. God's going to do something amazing in your life." I was just like, "Are you seeing my life? I'm a train wreck." But his belief that God wasn't done with me helped me not necessarily give up on myself.
Laura Dugger: That makes a lot of sense. I feel like something that the Lord has been teaching me in this season is that one part of love is just profound thoughtfulness. And it sounds like your family and some of these Christian friends from years ago, their profound thoughtfulness of you was a catalyst that kind of started softening your heart. [00:21:13]
Tindell Baldwin: Yeah, absolutely.
Laura Dugger: And stories are always helpful. So do you have any others that come to mind?
Tindell Baldwin: You know, one that stuck out with me, and it wasn't necessarily a story like I lived through, but it was just something my dad told me early on. I think I was a freshman or sophomore in high school. When this all started, they sat me down. We'd always have these kitchen table talks when they'd sit me down. I dreaded it.
But my dad said, "I like to compare high school to whitewater rafting." And he was like, "I've been through the rapids and I want to be your guide. And I can stand here and say the rapids are coming. You can't see it, but I can." He was like, "I want to be that for you. I want to tell you when it's coming."
He was trying to give me an example of "I've lived through this. I know where the pitfalls are." He liked to say, "Sin has tons of paths, but only one destination." That was his point was: "The rapids are all around you and you can't see it, you're just in the boat. But I've been down the river. I know it's coming. Let me help you. Let me guide you." [00:22:13]
He wanted to take that approach, they both wanted to take that approach, as opposed to, again, kind of shake your finger in your face and be like, "You should have done this. And why didn't you do this?"
Then later, him kind of watching me go through really tremendous pain and saying, like... Not in a "I told you so", but in a like, this is the rapid. I saw that. I could have helped you." You know, just trying to help walk with me so that I wouldn't shut them out.
Laura Dugger: Because there was a moment then, like you said, when he addressed this as the rapid, that was pretty powerful for you.
Tindell Baldwin: Yes. And actually, that was the lunch I was at with him when the boyfriend broke up with me. At that point, I had nothing left to hide. At this point, too, I'd kind of been excommunicated from the group for a little while because the boyfriend I was dating had said I couldn't come back to any of the parties or anything. And so I was kind of down and out. Then I was grounded too on top of that. I was kind of just at the rock bottom.
So at lunch my dad said, "What happened?" I just told him I was honest. I said, "No, I cheated on him and he broke up with me." [00:23:15] He was like, "This is what I wanted to prevent. I wanted to prevent the pain for you because now the rapids hit and it's too late and I can't take this pain away from you." And he was right. There's nothing he could do at that point to help me, except for again show me this crazy unconditional love. But that is what he was trying to help prevent me from.
Laura Dugger: Definitely. Again, thinking of that teenage girl listening, sometimes it's hard until they get to that point to realize what outsiders can see.
Tindell Baldwin: Yeah. And honestly, working with teenagers in some capacity for the last... I mean, I'm on my third group of small group girls. You know as much as I would love to say there's a quick answer to help teenagers, I think the reality is the best thing you can do for teenagers, be like the Kerri in their life... I tell other high school years all the time, like, Kerri, my brother's wife, was at that season like... he was living in their apartment and so she was living in our house and she was this consistent presence. [00:24:16]
And it's not like I went to her for advice and said, you know, what's the godly thing to do here? I never asked that. I went to her and said, "Can I talk to you? Will you help me? And she just consistently listened and cared for me. And as teenagers, the greatest thing you can do for them is listen to them, be present for them, and then justify their pain.
Like so often we want to tell teenagers, this isn't a big deal, but we know that because we've been through it. They don't know that. I mean, it's like when you have your first baby and you take him to the doctor for every little thing because you don't know what's a big deal and what's not. They're going through this and they don't know it. And how stupid do you feel when you take the baby to the doctor and the doctor looks at you and is like, why'd you bring him in?
That's how they feel when you look at them and say, This isn't a big deal. Like, oh, who cares who you're going to go to prom with? It's like, well, you probably cared when you were 16. But they care. So the most important thing we can do is justify their pain. "I'm sorry that hurts. It is real." Because it's real to them. And we can't take it from them, but we can help them see, like, you can make it through this or encourage them to keep going. [00:25:20] And just be present and listen.
Claire Stanfill: I need to give a lot of credit to my husband. Tommy is his name. He was always the even keel, see the big picture, and be able to come up with, Hey, this is how we can influence the relationship we have with Tindell, not this is how we can ground her or yell at her, do something to make us feel better because we've come down on her.
He was always focused on the huge picture, getting her to a great place in the end without losing any kind of relationship that we had. And I needed that. Because I need to make it clear we're sounding all great here. I had many times where I went up and just ripped Tindell a new one.
I mean, there was one time that she and a friend came home drunk and they were supposed to have picked up my youngest son at church. [00:26:22] They drove home, obviously, drunk. They did not pick up my son.
Tindell Baldwin: At a school event.
Claire Stanfill: Yes, thank goodness. Oh, yes, they had been at a school event and gotten rippled and drunk. I went upstairs and just vomited on them this speech of how disappointed I was. I mean, I made a fool of myself. I truly did. I felt at the time that maybe I was going to go better doing it and it did feel invigorating to just let it all out. But I had to go back upstairs very shortly after and go, "I am so sorry. I blew it."
And that's where I really needed my husband to say, "That's not going to get us anywhere." I knew it. The Holy Spirit tells you, "That was really good, Claire. Way to go. What a waste of time." So he was so instrumental, obviously, in speaking to her and then calming me down. We were a unified front. It took a little while for me to buy into what he thought should happen because I had my own ideas as well. So I just want to make sure that your listeners don't think, well, they did it all right. No, we didn't.
Laura Dugger: I appreciate that because I think as a mom we definitely can identify with that part of making so many mistakes. [00:27:40] We're trying our best.
Claire Stanfill: I know. I know.
Laura Dugger: Tindell, being years now removed from all of these experiences, what do you wish you could have gotten through to the head and the heart of teenage Tindell?
Tindell Baldwin: I love this because I don't know if there's a way to have gotten this through to me, but what I would have loved to understand at that age was that I was never too far gone from God. For me, I felt like the only objective goal, maybe when I knew I was going to enter this party lifestyle, was I'm not going to have sex before marriage. That was kind of the one thing I said I was going to keep that. Then once I did cross that line, I thought God was done with me. He had washed His hands of me and then I'm done with you.
I felt like that was such a bold lie that Satan had me believing and really kept me from even going back to Jesus because I felt like I couldn't go back. I had crossed that line, He was done. There was even a Good Friday service that we went to together, and Kristian was at Buckhead Church, way back when Buckhead Church was in a grocery store. [00:28:41] Christian was singing, and I just remember this big wooden cross being hung. The stage was in the middle of the room. This big wooden cross being hung in the middle of the stage and me looking at that cross and thinking that it was an invitation. Like there was an invitation from God and weeping. The music was so moving to me that I was weeping.
But I also remember thinking two things. One, I was too far gone, and then two, that the Christian life would never be as fulfilling as the party life I was leading. I would never have as much fun. I would never be as happy or satisfied as I was doing these things I was doing. Which is just so ironic now because now it's like the life I lead now is a billion times more fulfilling than that life I was living.
But yeah, those were the two things I wish I understood: how fulfilling and wonderful living in Christ is. And then just that God was never done with me. Like we aren't a disqualified person. It's actually what qualifies us for Jesus' grace.
Laura Dugger: And we all need a Savior.
Tindell Baldwin: Yes.
Laura Dugger: Well, Claire, did other people ever make hurtful comments or did Satan try to also whisper half-truths to you about your parenting during this struggle?
Claire Stanfill: Of course. We were great juicy gossip because we had these sons who really were excelling, as Tindell said. You know, Kristian was a worship leader at an early age. Taylor was high achieving in school with all the sports, and Brett was also an incredible worship leader. So it was like we had this black sheet that even a teacher at the school would say, what happened to you? And I think, how horrible. [00:30:28]
But I had people call me saying, "You need to do this," or "Did you know that Tindell did this?" Or "How in the world can you let her go to college where she is in her state of mind right now?" It's like we were on our own little island dealing with it because very few people had good intentions. It was more, Let me just tell you what is on the gossip train right now.
It was very discouraging. Because as a mom, you know part of our feeling fulfilled is to think we're doing a good job. And who measures that you're doing a good job? By the world standards, it's how you appear. What is your family doing? How are the kids behaving? All that stuff. And I was failing because I had a daughter that you know was not going the way we wanted her to go.
I had to deal with, You know what? I don't care what anybody thinks. Our family is right where God has us. He has us, number one. He's holding this. And these people that don't understand, one day they'll maybe understand. The beauty of it is so many people have been affected and encouraged and blown away by Tindell's decision to commit her life and become this incredibly beautiful mom in life. [00:31:59] Now, it's amazing the people that don't even have a faith that I know have made comments.
I had to work through making sure it wasn't for me that I wanted the reputation to be good. I just had to stop listening to a lot of what was going on.
Laura Dugger: I would think that that would be a very isolating feeling.
Claire Stanfill: It really was. And because we had gotten married so young, we were pioneering the moving on with older children. Most of our friends had children 10 years and younger, so we were kind of on our own. We didn't have a whole lot of older friends that had been through this kind of scenario that we could go, Oh, well, they did that and it really worked. We sought out lots of help, ministries, and things that could offer advice, but it was isolating. Very.
Laura Dugger: Well, and I wondered if you did seek out some mentors or somebody who had been through that. Was that helpful when you said reached out? [00:33:03]
Claire Stanfill: Yes, very. One ministry we reached out to was the Prodigal Child. It's a couple here in Atlanta that run the ministry. They had a prodigal child and they understood. They started this incredible ministry. We met with them, just listened to all that they had heard and seen through so many people that had come through their ministry. So they were a great resource. We had some counselors, both Tommy and myself, that we both went to.
Laura Dugger: I love hearing that. I think that's so courageous when you're able to reach out. I think it shows humility rather than that pride or self-righteousness.
Claire Stanfill: Yes. We need help.
Laura Dugger: We all do. So, Claire, if another parent right now is going through something similar, and they have their own prodigal child, how would you like to encourage them?
Claire Stanfill: I would say you have to hold tight to the truth. And the truth is Scripture. Over and over in Scripture, the promises that God gives us. [00:34:07] And just to name a few, He will never leave us or forsake us. Do not fear. The Lord goes with us. Draw near to Him and He will draw near to you. Be confident and courageous.
Paul, to me, was a great example. He was chained in prison, but he had the confidence and the courage for all practical purposes. The view he had was disastrous, but yet he always moved forward in whatever way he could confidently and courageously. I felt like that was our call. I think that you have to do that with the Lord behind you.
I think sometimes going through this kind of pain, we can look at it as a terrible nuisance, or we have to sometimes walk through pain and suffering, and we cannot do anything about it. This was one of those cases. We couldn't make Tindell turn around, so we were in a painful walk for quite a long time.
And what I learned was that that made me to be in dire need of Jesus. [00:35:12] It drew me to Him and created the most tender relationship between myself and Him. I wouldn't have that. And I can always go back to that when I think about what we went through with her. My relationship will never be the same because of that scenario. There's other scenarios in my life, too, that I have to say, you know, God's doing the same thing as He did back then. Lean into Him. That's my main advice. He is your rock.
Laura Dugger: I think you keep painting such a nice big-picture view instead of us getting so caught in the here and now. But now you're in a different season and it seems like God has just given you such an enlarged heart from this.
Claire Stanfill: Yeah, what a blessing.
Laura Dugger: Over 90 of you have already left five-star ratings and reviews. That is so awesome. If you haven't done it yet, would you mind just pausing to head over to iTunes and you can leave your own five-star rating and review?
Here is one that Nicole J. left. "Love this podcast. I legitimately look forward to listening because each episode and each time I repeat an episode, there is always something new that encourages me and equips me as a wife, mom, and friend. There are good podcasts that encourage, but so far on this one, everything has been rooted in biblical truth. Highly recommend." [00:36:38] Ww, thank you, Nicole J.
Now back to the show.
Tindell, will you pick up your story and tell us how you then reached breakthrough?
Tindell Baldwin: Despite other people's advice, they did let me go to college, which was honestly my saving grace because I think being raised in a suburb with going through high school right after my brothers were all close in age, I think the best thing for me was to kind of get into a new space with new people and a new reputation and kind of having to figure out who I want to be.
So I went to Auburn and no one really knew who my family was. No one knew who I was. I kind of looked around and thought, Oh, I can, maybe start over a little bit. I wasn't looking for God or anything, but He was looking for me. I think a few months in, I kind of started the same lifestyle for a while and then joined a sorority kind of known for being crazy.
Then a few months in, I looked around and I was like, "This is just a different place and different people, but it's the same old thing. Same old hurt, same old pain, same old lifestyle." [00:37:39] I was like, "Okay, something's got to give." So I thought, "Okay, well, I'll stop doing drugs and I won't sleep with anyone I'm dating. That was to clean up my life a little bit from the outside looking in, like I'll have a better reputation.
I mean it was college so I was like, Oh, I'm not going to give up drinking or anything." But my mom kind of saw the change in heart. And we were talking on the phone. College did wonderful things for our relationship. Just like a little of a distance, having to do all my own laundry and cooking and all that. I was like, Oh, I have a new appreciation for everything you've done for me my whole life.
So I was talking to her and I said, "I think I'm gonna go to my sororities Bible study." She was like, "Oh, you have to tell me. Sit down before you say stuff like that."
Claire Stanfill: It was a shock.
Tindell Baldwin: Yeah, it was a shock. But I just started being more open, and she saw that and was in tune with that. And so January of my freshman year, my oldest brother, Kristian, was leading his first Passion Conference, which is just a conference for college students based around Jesus. I didn't know anything about it. I didn't know who the speakers were. I just knew it was a big deal for my brother. And he'd always been so overly supportive and loving to me. All my brothers had. [00:38:42] And I thought, "Okay, I'll go." I think my dad was like, "We'll go shopping in Nashville. It was in Nashville.
So I went and the first speaker that I heard at the conference was Beth Moore, which like, if you've ever heard Beth Moore speak, you feel like she's just talking to you. She was talking about the pit and the pit of sin, what that looks like and how God can choose the person in Psalms, about how God lifts you out of the pit and puts your feet on solid ground.
I think for the first time, I kind of saw that all the pain in my life had been my own doing. Like I had dug the hole and jumped in myself and kept digging and hoping to make things better and cleaning up my life in any sort of way it wasn't going to do anything, but that like Jesus was the one person that's going to lift me out and put my feet on solid ground.
So then that night my brother came on stage and was singing Jesus Paid It All, which the chorus is, O praise the one who paid my debt, who raised this life up from the dead. And I just was ready. I think I was willing to surrender and accept that I had wrecked my own life, then I was ready for Jesus to wreck it in a good way and put it back together. [00:39:45]
And so I did. I accepted Jesus that night and went back and told them pretty quickly after and then met with my brother and his wife and talked to them and apologized to them for pain I had put them through. It was really beautiful.
But then I had to go back to college and college is hard when you're a new believer. It's not an easy place to start loving Jesus. So I had to kind of work through what it looked like. It was not like I came back to college and was like, Now I don't want to do any of the things that I used to do. It was very much having to trust God and a baby step of trusting him. Like you say, I'm supposed to do this and live this way, but are you right? Like, do I really believe you? It was not a full 180. I'm completely good. It was very much slow and steady baby steps to trusting and loving Him and believing that He really did have what was best for me.
I feel like within a year I was all in, willing to do whatever it took to know and love Him in a real way. I just realized He was the only thing that was going to put my life on a path that was worth living. [00:40:54] I met my husband the next year, who's a wonderful Christian man and we married.
Laura Dugger: So life has drastically changed since you surrendered everything to Jesus. Catch us up now and tell us more of how it has changed.
Tindell Baldwin: You know, honestly, I think that an easier thing would be how it hasn't changed because there's not really one part of my life that God hasn't touched. It's such a wonderful thing. I mean, hard, but wonderful that I get to be such a different person. It was such a clear transformation for me that it was like, it's easy for me to trust God because I know what life was like without Him.
I mean, how I parent is totally different because of my love for Jesus, how I love my husband, how I love others, how I treat other people, the things I prioritize, the voice I listen to. Our need for love and acceptance, what I was searching for back at 15, doesn't go away. But how I fulfill it now is through Jesus. [00:41:53]
I think the main difference is I'm not following Jesus out of any shame or guilt or any family push. I'm following him because I have utter gratitude for what He did for me on the cross and what I know and believe and have seen that He's done for me. It's been easier for me to trust Him with things that's maybe harder if you've known Jesus your whole life. I think in some aspects it's been an easier transition for me because there's such a clear picture of my life before Jesus and my life afterwards.
Laura Dugger: Claire, what was that moment like when you realized that God had rescued Tindell and she had accepted Him as her Lord and Savior?
Claire Stanfill: It was almost like speechless elation. I didn't have the words. I had lots of tears of joy. I was beyond thankful. It was like the vision that I had had for her life was coming to fruition. And there were no doubts. The burden had been lifted. [00:42:55] I just felt an immediate gratitude, incredible gratitude that, wow, she's been delivered. We have her back. We have our family unity back without contention.
It's hard to put into words. I'll tell you what it was like. When Tindell was born, we didn't know she was going to be a girl. We had had Kristian and Taylor, and of course, I wanted a girl. And when they said, "It's a girl," I said, "Show me." I was just in shock and beyond happy. And it's almost like she was born again to me. I got her back. I felt that feeling of "I can hold her again." She's my girl.
There were days I thought we were losing her. Many weeks. I read her journal, she wanted to kill herself. She was cutting herself. It was not pretty. To envision the end being this incredible. It was more incredible than I could have ever envisioned because God created it, and He made it happen. It still blows me away.
Laura Dugger: I think every parent listening can relate to that, myself included. Our oldest is only five, and yeah, I long for that day where... I'm going to just paraphrase but I have no greater joy than to know that my children are walking in the truth.
Claire Stanfill: Amen. Amen. [00:44:19]
Laura Dugger: So how has your relationship with each other, the mother-daughter relationship, how has that changed since that day?
Tindell Baldwin: Oh man. Honestly, I do feel like college, even before then, like just going to college started repairing, if that can give parents hope. I tell a lot of mothers of teenagers all the time, like when they leave the house, there's like a renewed understanding for everything they've done for you, all that your mom's done for you.
I mean, we live 10 minutes away right now, which is super fun. We named our oldest Claire after her just for what an impact she's been on my life. We have a great friendship. It's a joy to be friends with your mom, to go to lunch on a Thursday. How I parent has been influenced by our relationship. I'm super grateful that we have the bond that we do, a friendship that we do.
Laura Dugger: Because you didn't try to force a friendship early on. You were the parent, Claire and now you get to reap so many blessings.
Claire Stanfill: So true. So true. [00:45:24]
Laura Dugger: From your perspective, how has the relationship changed with your daughter?
Claire Stanfill: Oh, it's just sweet. It's real. The great thing too is that I don't think we ever totally lost a relationship. It wasn't like we had to then, once she came back to the Lord, figure out how to have a relationship. Like I said, my husband was so instrumental in making sure that that happened. So we've just been able to go deeper, move to the next level.
Now we are just the closest of friends. Probably not a day goes by we don't talk. I just adore her, my time with her. I'm so just in awe of what God's done and that I get to have this relationship with her.
Laura Dugger: Well, Tindell, what do you want to say to the teenager who's in a season right now of rebellion and resisting anything related to what their parents are saying or what God wants to say to them?
Tindell Baldwin: I would challenge them just not to believe that they're ever too far gone, that God is a Redeemer. And even though they might not be able to see where He's working in their story, He hasn't given up on you, even if you've given up on Him or given up on yourself. [00:46:38]
Also to find someone who can have faith for you when you don't. Kerri was that person to me. But to have someone who you can talk to, who can be like a guiding light for you. Honestly, I would say older than you. I think your peers are wonderful, but having someone a little farther ahead that can be a small group leader or mentor or something. Just finding that person and being able to have them encourage you and again, maybe have faith for you when you don't, I think is a vital thing.
Laura Dugger: And to have a mentor in all of these things.
Claire Stanfill: Amen.
Tindell Baldwin: Yes. Yes.
Claire Stanfill: Definitely.
Laura Dugger: Claire, what about you? What's the biggest lesson that God has taught you through all of this?
Claire Stanfill: I would say that He is enough and He is faithful. His promises are true. He who began a good work in you will complete it to the end, to the day of Jesus. Tindell was very outspoken like the fourth and fifth grade about God and heaven and who was going to heaven and who wasn't. [00:47:42] She loved to just tell people the truth.
Tindell Baldwin: All good fourth graders are.
Claire Stanfill: But I knew deep down in her heart that God had worked in her some. So I knew that she would come back. I think it's just having that faith, you know, and knowing that God really is enough. And I would say be united with your husband. I think it's so true.
And if you don't have a husband, if you're a single mom, I would say find that safe person that is like a mentor, who believes in you and understands you, that you can bounce things off of, because we all need a balance.
Laura Dugger: You really walked that faith where you had to believe in things that were not seen completely.
Claire Stanfill: Exactly.
Laura Dugger: Additionally, Tindell, how has your story impacted the way that you are now parenting your own children?
Tindell Baldwin: I think that's been one of the greatest blessings to me. One, I decided early on I wanted to heal from my story, which honestly writing it was super hard because writing your own story is really just kind of reliving everything you've gone through and figuring out where you need to get counseling, not get counseling, all that kind of stuff. [00:48:51]
So I did. I went through a lot of counseling as I was writing Popular. That helped me a ton just process my past. I think shame is such a powerful thing the enemy uses. I just decided I wasn't gonna be held back by shame. Like I believe that I'm a new creation and so I can live in freedom and I don't have to feel shame about my past, which has been huge going around and sharing my story. To know that I'm not who I was, that I'm a new creation, so I can live out of that.
So that's been great just now having two daughters and knowing I'm probably going to have to talk about some things that are hard and painful, and I'm going to have to walk through some maybe scary stuff with them.
Then also just like knowing that my kids walk with the Lord as their own. Having to trust that He has them and He loves them. That my prayer has always been that they know and love Him from an early age. But I think in my heart what's more important even than an early age, which is scary to say, but that they know and love Him authentically, and that their faith is their own. [00:49:50]
Because for me, even if I hadn't gone through the rebellion and I had lived out the steps of the Christian life, I didn't know Jesus, and I didn't understand what He had done for me. So I want my girls and my son to know not just what Jesus has done for them, but to experience Him in a real way so that their faith sticks and they don't lose it in high school or they don't lose it in college or whatever. Because I think even if I'd gone through the motions of Christianity when college had hit, I would have run away because it wasn't my own. So knowing that what's more important than necessarily them avoiding the pain is that they have a faith that's theirs.
Laura Dugger: And that's so hard in the day-to-day life of being a mom to do that. But when I hear you say that, it's so clear, like, yes, we need faith. That's essential. Well, this time has been an incredible blessing, and I'm sure that people are going to want to reach out or follow up. Maybe they have some questions or would love some guidance from the two of you. So where's the best place that they can connect with you online?
Tindell Baldwin: I have a blog, that's TindellBaldwin.com, which I have not been great about keeping up this year because I've been working on something longer, hopefully. [00:51:00] But, yep, I have a blog, and on there's a "contact me". Then I'm on social media. Tindell Grace is my Instagram.
Claire Stanfill: I'm on social media as well, or my email is just Clairestanfill@gmail.
Laura Dugger: Perfect. We will link to all of that in our show notes. I have one final question for you today, ladies, because we are called The Savvy Sauce because savvy means practical knowledge. So we'd all love to hear what is your savvy sauce?
Tindell Baldwin: Oh, yeah. Okay, this is kind of super practical, but in this season of little kids to stay connected to my husband. We do something we call a Sunday night check-in. Well, the acronym is BUMPS, but it's budget, upcoming week, marriage, parenting, and spiritual.
So we go through these on Sunday night. We fold all of our laundry together on Sunday night after I get home from church and we go through each category. That's our time to like... maybe if things were hard or something came up that week. [00:52:01] It's just been a nice thing for us to stay connected on the same page, especially with parenting. That's been like our practical kind of saving grace and raising kids under six right now.
Laura Dugger: That's awesome. We're going to link to that acronym even.
Tindell Baldwin: So good.
Laura Dugger: Claire, what about you? What is your savvy sauce?
Claire Stanfill: Well, I would say my advice or savvy sauce would be to laugh, listen, and learn every day.
My husband really has taught me to laugh. He is a funny guy, very upbeat. And I think that is just so important. We need to learn to listen well, listen to people's hearts, listen to God. It's just always so wonderful to learn.
Laura Dugger: I love both of your savvy sauces. This time has just been so enjoyable. I love getting to witness in person as we're in Atlanta recording this, just seeing the love and care you have for one another and for Jesus. So thank you for giving us your time today. [00:53:03]
Claire Stanfill: Yeah, thanks for having us.
Tindell Baldwin: Thank you so much.
Laura Dugger: One more thing before you go. Have you heard the term "gospel" before? It simply means good news. And I want to share the best news with you. But it starts with the bad news. Every single one of us were born sinners and God is perfect and holy, so He cannot be in the presence of sin. Therefore, we're separated from Him.
This means there's absolutely no chance we can make it to heaven on our own. So for you and for me, it means we deserve death and we can never pay back the sacrifice we owe to be saved. We need a savior. But God loved us so much, He made a way for His only Son to willingly die in our place as the perfect substitute.
This gives us hope of life forever in right relationship with Him. That is good news. Jesus lived the perfect life we could never live and died in our place for our sin. [00:54:04] This was God's plan to make a way to reconcile with us so that God can look at us and see Jesus.
We can be covered and justified through the work Jesus finished if we choose to receive what He has done for us. Romans 10:9 says that if you confess with your mouth Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved.
So would you pray with me now? Heavenly, Father, thank You for sending Jesus to take our place. I pray someone today right now is touched and chooses to turn their life over to You. Will You clearly guide them and help them take their next step in faith to declare You as Lord of their life? We trust You to work and change their lives now for eternity. In Jesus name, we pray, amen.
If you prayed that prayer, you are declaring Him for me, so me for Him, you get the opportunity to live your life for Him. [00:55:04]
At this podcast, we are called Savvy for a reason. We want to give you practical tools to implement the knowledge you have learned. So you're ready to get started?
First, tell someone. Say it out loud. Get a Bible. The first day I made this decision my parents took me to Barnes and Noble to get the Quest NIV Bible and I love it. Start by reading the book of John.
Get connected locally, which basically means just tell someone who is part of the church in your community that you made a decision to follow Christ. I'm assuming they will be thrilled to talk with you about further steps such as going to church and getting connected to other believers to encourage you.
We want to celebrate with you too. So feel free to leave a comment for us if you made a decision for Christ. We also have show notes included where you can read Scripture that describes this process.
Finally, be encouraged. Luke 15:10 says, "In the same way, I tell you, there is rejoicing in the presence of the angels of God over one sinner who repents." [00:56:07] The heavens are praising with you for your decision today.
If you've already received this good news, I pray that you have someone else to share it with today. You are loved and I look forward to meeting you here next time.
Welcome to The Savvy Sauce
Practical chats for intentional living
A faith-based podcast and resources to help you grow closer to Jesus and others. Expect encouragement, surprises, and hope here. Each episode offers lively interviews with fascinating guests such as therapists, authors, non-profit founders, and business leaders.
They share their best practices and savvy tips we can replicate to make our daily life and relationships more enjoyable!
Related Episodes
