*DISCLAIMER* This episode includes adult content and is not intended for young ears.

Song of Songs 1:1 (NIV) "Let him kiss me with the kisses of his mouth—for your love is more delightful than wine."

**Transcription Below**

Questions We Discuss:

Can you tell us more about the three essential aspects to a woman flourishing sexually in marriage?
How is a woman's sexual response related to each day of her cycle?
What are some important things to know about female orgasm?

Dr. Jennifer Degler is a Psychologist, life coach, author, and speaker. She is known for her frank, funny, energetic seminars which weave together practical information and Scripture with real life examples from her clinical practice and her own marriage and family. She loves audience involvement and keeping a group on their toes, meaning no one gets sleepy during her talks, and everyone goes home with apply-it-now tools for successful living, satisfying relationships, and improved emotional health.

Audiences say she could’ve been a standup comedian, but Dr. Jennifer prefers helping people through her central Kentucky counseling practice and writing books like No More Christian Nice Girl and the Deck of Dares: 40 Dares to Make Your Marriage Sizzle. Her fabulous adult children, Josie and Jake, delight in telling their friends that their mom runs a sex shop when, in reality, she founded CWIVES.com, a ministry to help Christian wives make their sex lives sizzle. When she’s not podcasting and blogging about emotional wellness, relationships, sex, and spiritual growth on the JenniferDegler.com website, you can find her teaching a women’s Sunday School class, kayaking, and enjoying her empty nest with her high school sweetheart husband, Jeff.

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Gospel Scripture: (all NIV)

Romans 3:23 “for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,”

Romans 3:24 “and are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus.”

Romans 3:25 (a) “God presented him as a sacrifice of atonement, through faith in his blood.”

Hebrews 9:22 (b) “without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness.”

Romans 5:8 “But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us.”

Romans 5:11 “Not only is this so, but we also rejoice in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have now received reconciliation.”

John 3:16 “For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.”

Romans 10:9 “That if you confess with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.”

Luke 15:10 says “In the same way, I tell you, there is rejoicing in the presence of the angels of God over one sinner who repents.”

Romans 8:1 “Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus”

Ephesians 1:13–14 “And you also were included in Christ when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation. Having believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit, who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God’s possession- to the praise of his glory.”

Ephesians 1:15–23 “For this reason, ever since I heard about your faith in the Lord Jesus and your love for all the saints, I have not stopped giving thanks for you, remembering you in my prayers. I keep asking that the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the glorious Father, may give you the spirit of wisdom and revelation, so that you may know him better. I pray also that the eyes of your heart may be enlightened in order that you may know the hope to which he has called you, the riches of his glorious inheritance in the saints, and his incomparably great power for us who believe. That power is like the working of his mighty strength, which he exerted in Christ when he raised him from the dead and seated him at his right hand in the heavenly realms, far above all rule and authority, power and dominion, and every title that can be given, not only in the present age but also in the one to come. And God placed all things under his feet and appointed him to be head over everything for the church, which is his body, the fullness of him who fills everything in every way.”

Ephesians 2:8–10 “For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith – and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God – not by works, so that no one can boast. For we are God‘s workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do.“

Ephesians 2:13 “But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far away have been brought near through the blood of Christ.“

Philippians 1:6 “being confident of this, that he who began a good work in you will carry it on to completion until the day of Christ Jesus.”

**Transcription**

[00:00:00] <Music>

Laura Dugger: Welcome to The Savvy Sauce, where we have practical chats for intentional living. I'm your host, Laura Dugger, and I'm so glad you're here.

[00:00:23] <Music>

Laura Dugger: Today's message is not intended for little ears. We'll be discussing some adult themes, and I want you to be aware before you listen to this message.

I'm excited to introduce you to an old friend and today's sponsor, Justin Maust. He's an Expert EOS, Implementer, a certified speaker for the John Maxwell team and a passionate coach committed to glorifying God by helping business owners get everything they want from their business.

We're continuing our sex series with an incredible interview with Dr. Jennifer Degler. Dr. Degler is a psychologist, life coach, author and speaker. You are going to laugh and you're going to learn so much as she shares about practical ways females can flourish in their marriage and in their sex life. Here's our chat.

Welcome to The Savvy Sauce, Jennifer.

Dr. Jennifer Degler: Thank you, Laura. Thank you for having me on.

Laura Dugger: [00:01:23] Well, will you just start us off by sharing a bit about yourself and how you ended up in this line of work?

Dr. Jennifer Degler: Well, Laura, I don't think anybody on sixth grade career day says I want to be a speaker when I grow up. It's one of those things that if you end up in this field, it's usually because of this is just something God called you into, and you've also done your own healing journey and found out that there are a lot of people who are really hungry for solid, practical, biblically-based sexual information.

So I am a clinical psychologist. I am not a sex therapist. A lot of people think I am, but I'm not. I am a clinical psychologist. When I was a young mom, I was asked to speak on sex to a MOPS group, a Mothers of Preschoolers group. And I said, "I don't speak on sex." And they were like, "No, you're a psychologist, you should be able to speak on this."

So I decided I'm going to come up with answers to my questions that I had as a young mother. Like, where did my sex drive go? Why am I so tired all the time? How can I make my sex life better while I still have little ones running around the house?

Out of that first presentation, that was probably 24 years ago, I've just developed a speaking and writing ministry helping Christian wives make their sex life sizzle.

[00:02:54] Laura Dugger: That's amazing. I'm so grateful for the work that you do. For generations, we've learned more about males' normative experience of sex. But you, Jennifer, do such a great job providing knowledge about the woman's experience as well. So can you tell us more about the three essential aspects to a woman flourishing sexually in marriage?

Dr. Jennifer Degler: Sure, Laura. So this is a model that I developed. I call it the sexual fire triangle. And if you are ever a Girl Scout, you may remember the fire triangle. You need three things to make a fire. You need heat, you need fuel, and you need oxygen. And when you combine those three things, then you get combustion and you get a fire.

And I believe as wives, we have three aspects to our sexuality in marriage that we have to keep tending to those three areas in order to keep our sexual fire going. So the first part would correspond to fuel, and that's a healthy, sexually responsive body. A lot of the work that I do, Laura, is around educating women about their bodies because we tend to talk about our genitals because they like, "Oh, it's down there, I got something going on down there or I don't have anything going on down there, you know, kind of like we're talking about Australia.

So I want to help women understand how does their body works in the bedroom and what can we do to help create that, just to make sex feel good and help your body, you appreciate your body and help it work well.

Then the second aspect, which would correspond to the heat in the sexual fire triangle, is an emotional connection between a husband and wife. So helping couples understand how can they improve and deepen that emotional connection.

And then finally would be the oxygen aspect of the sexual fire triangle, which is having healthy, biblical positive attitudes towards sex. So what do you think about sex? Because the brain is the most powerful sex organ that you have. Your genitals are important, but that brain is really important too.

So what you're thinking about sex controls, many times for women, whether they'll even let their body respond or whether they'll allow themselves to feel an emotional connection to their husband.

So we want women to pay attention to those three areas. And if things have been flagging in the bedroom and kind of losing their sizzle, it really helps to just stop and evaluate those three areas. How are things going with my body, how's my emotional connection, and how's my attitude towards sex?

Laura Dugger: [00:05:48] That's so helpful. Even the analogy of calling it the sexual fire triangle because there's three elements essential for fire. And I agree with you, these are three different parts, that if you take out any one of those components, it will have an impact on a couple's sex life.

So what we've covered in the past have been the second to them, you mentioned. But I really want to go back to the first one, the healthy sexual responsive body. Can you elaborate and just tell us more about God's amazing physical design of female genitalia and how it changes day by day?

Dr. Jennifer Degler: I would love to, Laura. And this is where if people are listening and your kids are in the car, if you haven't already made them put on their headphones so they can hear this because we're going to talk about the genitalia and use the correct terminology for that.

For so many women and men, they really know very little about the female genitalia. Many times women will just refer to their genitalia as their vagina when that's just part of their genitalia. So we want to help women recognize, first of all, about their clitoris, that they have this amazing organ on their body that is created solely for pleasure.

A man's penis is a multipurpose tool. It's not created just for pleasure. It's created for procreation and urination and for pleasure and for writing your name in the snow. There's a lot of purposes of a penis. But a clitoris is only there for pleasure. So we want to help women understand that something they need to find if they haven't already.

And you can certainly look at anatomical drawings and see where that is at the top of that clitoral, the lips of the labia. And to understand that all of the nerve endings that are in your husband's penis are in your clitoris and that that network of arteries, the network of all the blood and the tissue and nerve endings, that all of that continues up into a woman's body.

[00:08:07] So while the clitoris itself is very small, it's only the size of about a pea that a whole lot of things are happening inside your body where you can't see it that are helping you get sexually excited and helping your body be more responsive.

So helping women educate themselves about their clitoris and then understanding that most orgasms that women are having their clitoral. Even if they're having an orgasm as a result of intercourse, so that would be a penis and a vagina, that it's because of clitoral stimulation.

And that it's difficult for women a lot of times to have an orgasm just from intercourse. That's why we create a baby. But in terms of creating pleasure, we need to make sure that they are looking at the clitoris as well. This is where sexual pain can be an issue many times for women that this is not being addressed and they're having intercourse and it's hurting.

Maybe not even intercourse, maybe just some kind of manual stimulation. And that is painful to them. And instead of saying, hey, that hurts, I need to go get that checked out, a lot of women will just grin and bear it and that will shut down your body. After a while, your body will begin to armor up.

So it's so important that if part of the reason why your sexual fire is going out is because sex hurts, then we need to stop doing what hurts and go and figure out what is causing me this pain. Or if you're thinking, gosh, my genitals just doesn't hurt down there, but I just don't ever seem to get a lot of pleasure, it doesn't feel good, it doesn't feel bad, but it doesn't feel good, then that's where it's helpful for couples to read a book together, maybe to go and talk to a therapist to figure out, okay, if it doesn't hurt, but it doesn't feel good, what can we do to help maximize the woman's pleasure?

Laura Dugger: [00:10:17] That is all so helpful and so clear. And then also just looking at female's hormones and how they change throughout the day and they change throughout our cycle, what are some helpful tips that we may not be aware of that are actually affecting us sexually?

Dr. Jennifer Degler: So if you take a typical 28-day cycle, and this would be for a woman who still has a period, then day one of your cycle is the first day that you begin bleeding. And then right in the middle of that, usually around day 14 is when you ovulate. And the way you're going to respond sexually can really, really vary from day to day.

So if you start at the beginning, on that day one estrogen is beginning to rise and that's the happy hormone. So typically, women are beginning to feel better emotionally. Now, usually if you're actually on your first couple of days of your period and you're having a lot of cramps and whatnot, you're not necessarily feeling better. But as you're getting into days three, four, five, and so on, as estrogen is rising, then you're beginning to feel better.

Serotonin, which is a neurotransmitter, it follows estrogen. So when estrogen is up, serotonin is up. And when the estrogen goes down, serotonin goes down. Well, serotonin helps with our mood, helps our mood feel more positive, more stable. It helps us sleep better.

As well, CRF, which has to do with regulating our blood sugar, that follows estrogen as well. So we typically are feeling that we're not having cravings in those first two weeks of our cycle. So usually for a lot of women, this is a great time to have sex because they're happier and they like the people in their house better and their body is more responsive.

And around about maybe day 12 going into day 12, day 13, as you're beginning to ovulate and as you're ovulating, usually around day 14, then you're going to have a surge of luteinizing hormone and you'll ovulate. And whether you can feel the pain of ovulation or not, your body interprets that as you being in pain. So your body decides, I'm going to help you out and I'm going to release some endorphins because you're in pain. So you get this endorphin high around the time that you ovulate.

For many women, that is the one time during the month that they actually kind of begin to think about sex without it being prompted because they're kind of high on endorphins. This is kind of God trying to get you pregnant because this is also the time when you are most fertile.

Then after you ovulate, usually within about 24 hours after ovulation, your body says, Hey, you're not in pain anymore, let's withdraw these endorphins. So then you get a little bit of endorphin withdrawal and you feel kind of down. And for many women, they go to bed feeling good and they wake up the next day and they're like, Oh. And it signals that for some women, the beginning of PMS.

Assuming you're not pregnant, your body then begins to prepare itself to menstruate, and so your estrogen level begins to drop and your progesterone level begins to rise. And progesterone causes the physical symptoms of PMS. So the breast tenderness and feeling bloated, which oftentimes means we're not as interested in sex and as well because estrogen is dropping, serotonin is dropping, so you're not sleeping as well. You're more irritable. CRF is dropping, which means your blood sugar isn't that stable. So we're having more food cravings and we're just cranky here.

For a lot of women, this is not a time when they're interested in having sex because maybe their breasts are tender and they're kind of cranky. But I encourage women, see if you can use this time to have what I call cranky sex, which because if you could have an orgasm, it does help kind of even out your hormones and you will feel better. And it releases endorphins, which will help with pain relief for any pain that you may be feeling.

So you can just tell your husband, look, I'm not in the mood for sex, but I know if I have an orgasm I'll feel better. So I want you, Mr., you just take off your clothes, you get in that bed, and we're not getting out of the bed until I have an orgasm. And he will probably love that. He will be like, "Yes, yes, teacher, I will gladly do that."

So that becomes a time of realizing, Hey, I don't have to have sex always when I'm feeling like I want sex. That I can come at it in a lot of different ways, and ultimately, it's creating connection with my husband, and it's also helping me develop a more positive attitude towards sex. Because it's not just about him, like I'm doing this for him, it's about I'm doing this for me and for us.

So over that 28-day cycle, you may find your body responds in all different ways and that your interest in sex varies tremendously. And that's why we as women need to be aware of that and where we are in our cycle so that we can understand better. Okay, how can I approach sex? How can I think about sex based on where I am in my cycle?

Laura Dugger: [00:16:04] Oh, my goodness. That was so fascinating. I've studied sex for well over a decade now, and I've never heard it laid out like that with our hormones. So thank you. That is so interesting. And let's just keep going with that. What other sex education do you find is most beneficial to the clients who come to see you?

Dr. Jennifer Degler: Well, I think, in addition to understanding, okay, here's how my cycle works, I think it's really important for women to understand how sleep affects them sexually, and in particular, how a lack of sleep will affect them sexually. Because men have at least ten times the amount of testosterone that we do. When you have more testosterone, you're in drive sexually and your body is just going to respond quicker to sexual cues. You're more likely to just spontaneously think about sex. And then once you're kissing or caressing, you're able to kind of block out other distractions and just focus on sexual activity.

But for women, because we have more estrogen, we're more likely to be distractible during sex. And it's harder for us to kind of put out of our mind all these other things that might be going on. Also, when we're fatigued, either we're not getting enough sleep or we are just working incredibly hard, fatigue decreases our levels of sex hormones.

Cortisol, which is a stress hormone, suppresses our sex hormones. So the more stressed out we are, the more fatigued we are, the less interested we're going to be in sex and our bodies won't respond as well. And when you're sleeping, your body is replenishing those sex hormones.

[00:18:09] So I have a formula that I teach couples, which is for women, more sleep equals better sex. And oftentimes, as I said, I got into this area because I was a young mom and I was wondering what happened to my sex drive. It's just gone and my body isn't as responsive.

And realizing I just was sleep deprived and that my husband and I needed to partner together to figure out how to get me naps. And once we realized our sex life improved dramatically if I could get a nap. And because your testosterone level, as a woman, it's highest upon awakening and it falls as much as a third to a half as the day goes on.

So we were waiting until 10:00 or 11:00 at night to have sex while my testosterone level was at its lowest, my energy was at its lowest. So, of course, I'm not going to respond as well. So trying to get me a nap and also realizing sex in the morning, for a lot of women, sex in the morning is going to be a whole lot better for them because you're going to have your highest level of testosterone and your mind is going to be clearer and you're physically going to have more energy than if you're waiting until 10:00, 11:00 at night.

Laura Dugger: [00:19:30] Okay, just to clarify. So by the end of the day, you're saying women's testosterone decreases... it goes down one-third or one-half or you end up with one-third of what you began with?

Dr. Jennifer Degler: I'm saying it decreases by as much as a third to a half as your day goes on. So depending on however much you started out with, you're going to have a third to 50% less than you started out with. Laura, we have testosterone receptors on our genitals, we have them on our nipples, we have them under our arms, and we have them in our brain.

I don't know why we have them under our arms, but don't let strangers tickle you. So when we have testosterone in those receptors, particularly on our genitals, sex will feel better and our genitals will respond better. So that's why we want to maximize that as women. And realizing sleep will help with that and not being so fatigued, and so understanding that we have to save energy for sex, which means we need to say no to some things that maybe...

When was the last time, Laura, that you actually before you said yes to being on a committee or to bringing cupcakes to school or whatever it might be, to stop and think, how will this impact my sex drive? Saying yes to this is going to take some energy, which means there's going to be less left over for sex. So it's a different way as a woman to think about energy in our body and what do I need to do to help sex feel as good as possible in my body.

[00:21:24] <Music>

Sponsor: And now a brief message from our sponsor. Thank you to my friend and sponsor, Justin Maust, for making this episode possible. As an Expert EOS implementer, Justin has provided over 500 full-day sessions helping business owners implement EOS into their business. EOS is the entrepreneurial operating system, which is a complete set of simple and practical tools to help entrepreneurs get what they want from their businesses.

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[00:23:10] <Music>

Laura Dugger: And then also, when we consider our husbands, is their testosterone the same where it's produced or replenished with sleep, and so there is also highest upon awakening?

Dr. Jennifer Degler: You know what? I don't know because I really study women more than I study men. Men tend to have just more stable levels of hormones because they don't have a cycle. When you're a woman, every day is kind of different. So those hormones and neurotransmitters, all of this is interacting together.

For men, it tends to just be a little more steady state. However, we do know that fatigue does affect men's sex drive. So, you know, if your guy is working really long hours and not getting enough rest, oftentimes that will show up in a decrease in interest in sex.

Your testosterone is not just a sex hormone. Testosterone is a hormone of well-being. When your testosterone level is normal for whether you're a woman or a man, when it's at a normal level, you just feel better as a person. So, again, it, yes, has a lot to do with sex drive, but it also has to do with just feeling good.

So that's why for men, if they've noticed a decline in their sex drive and just not feeling just well-being, just not having as much well-being, they can go and have blood test and see, is there testosterone level normal? Because sometimes, particularly as a man maybe gets into his 40s, he might need some testosterone supplementation.

Now, women can't directly take oral testosterone. That would be dangerous for a woman. Sometimes women can use a testosterone cream that they might rub on their body, but in general, supplementing testosterone in women doesn't always result in a big jump in sex drive because there's so many other factors that load on to the sex drive and sexual responsivity. But it's always worth talking to your doctor and getting those levels checked out if you used to be interested in sex and you're not anymore.

Laura Dugger: [00:25:31] That's also helpful. Will you now explain vessel congestion and its connection to a woman having a pleasurable sexual experience?

Dr. Jennifer Degler: Yes. Vessel congestion, that sounds like a scary word, but it's just the medical term for blood flow. So whenever you have blood flow to a certain area of your body, that's vessel vascular congestion. So that gathering there.

So when a man has vessel congestion in his genitals, it's very obvious because he gets an erection. But for women, because our genitals are hidden away, we can't see and oftentimes don't even know that we're having vessel congestion as well. So what's happening is that blood flow is gone. When a woman is sexually excited and her body is responding, then that blood flow to the genitals, that is helping prepare her for sex.

And in particular, one thing that's happening is something called the orgasmic platform. This is where the entrance to the vagina, there is your blood flow there and it makes the entrance to the vagina and the first maybe inch into the vagina swell up. This allows more contact with the G-spot, which is inside a woman's vagina, about... if a woman were like in stirrups and the doctor is looking directly at her vagina, a clock would be 12 o'clock is the top and 6 o'clock is at the bottom, near the anus. 12:00 is the top part. So the G spots about an inch or a little bit more depending on the woman into the vagina at that 12:00 position. And it's a little bit rougher area and it feels more like a sponge. It's about the size maybe of a dime. And when it's stimulated, it might grow to about the size of a quarter.

What it is, is it's that root ball of the nerve endings of the clitoris. And it's an area that can be particularly responsive to sexual stimulation. So when you have vast congestion in the genitals of a woman, one of the things that's doing is, is making all of that area more responsive as well. Something happens that's called the orgasmic platform, which just like with a train, if you're going to catch a train, you've got to be up on the platform.

For a woman, if you're going to catch an orgasm, you have to have this orgasmic platform that's happening in your genitals that allows for enough sexual excitement. So this can be tricky if you're taking blood pressure medicine because it reduces your blood pressure, which for men it can make it difficult to get an erection, which usually they can tell. That is very obvious. But with women, they don't realize, okay, I'm taking my blood pressure medicine and I haven't been able to have an orgasm for a while. Those two things are related.

Now, again, we don't want you to stop taking your blood pressure medicine. We don't want you to have a heart attack. But it is something to talk to your doctor about and see if there are... What else could you do to lower your blood pressure in addition to taking medicine so that sexually your body is more likely to be able to create that pleasure?

So other diseases that have to do with blood flow, so whether that's diabetes or something that has caused some atrophy of the genitalia, vaginal atrophy, for instance, women that have had chemotherapy, different kinds of chemotherapy, different kinds of radiation, depending on where that's at, that can possibly cause some atrophy of those vaginal tissues. So the blood flow doesn't work as well there.

So, again, even though it's embarrassing to talk to your doctor about these things, it's really important to do that because there are things you can do to help improve that. But you won't know unless you get some help.

Laura Dugger: [00:29:42] And with those kind of things, in the same way that other medication, antidepressants, anti-anxiety medication, could you potentially alter the timing if you talk to your doctor and see if you could take it either right before or maybe right after the sexual intercourse together?

Dr. Jennifer Degler: Yeah. You know, antidepressants, particularly SSRI, selective serotonin reuptake inhibitors, the original ones which are like Prozac, Zoloft, Paxil, they do have a tendency to have sexual side effects and they can make it more difficult to have an orgasm.

I take Prozac myself. I don't take a very high dose. But it definitely over the last couple of years with the pandemic and just stress and whatnot, it's been helpful for me because I can struggle at times with depression. But I can tell if I take it and then have sex within a couple of three hours after that, that my genitals just don't respond as well.

It's just having just a little bit of... you know, you need some sexual tension in order for pleasure to build. And it's just kind of making that harder for that to happen. So I take my pill in the morning, so we usually will have sex in the morning and then I take my medicine because right before you take your medicine is when you have the least amount of it in your bloodstream.

Another thing that we'll do is like when we go on vacation, I will sometimes do a drug holiday and I will go a couple of days without taking my antidepressant. Usually by the third day I can tell I need to start taking it again. But you can talk to your doctor, you know, depending on your level of depression, the severity of it, and figuring out are some things I can do to help with my sex life.

I know some women maybe don't take it on the weekend and if they don't see their husband during the week, maybe he travels or maybe she travels during the week, they take it during the week and then maybe they take a break on the weekend when they're together again because they want their genital response to be better.

So, again, these are things to talk to your doctor about and be willing to notice. It helps sometimes just like to calendar, write it down and notice, okay, this was good. And kind of working both with your menstrual cycle and also working with your medication profile. What can we do so that we're several times a month, we're having some great sex.

And then as well, talk to your doctor. It might be that there's a different medication that you could try. Some of the newer antidepressants don't have as much of a sexual side effect profile. So that might be Lexapro, Celexa, Cymbalta. Those people don't have as many sexual side effects.

You know, migraine medicines can affect your sex drive and your ability to orgasm. So it's always good to read those little pamphlets that they stick in your bag when you get your prescription medicines or when you take over-the-counter meds. Definitely read those.

Laura Dugger: That's so helpful. And thank you for being so open and really normalizing that and offering some creative solutions because even things like decongestants that dries you up, so that likely would dry up your genital lubrication as well. So all of these meds may have some impact. So I appreciate those practical examples.

[00:33:17] <Music>

Laura Dugger: There is an exciting project taking place behind the scenes right now and I would love to invite you to participate. I will give you more details as I'm able. But for now, here's my request. Will you email me your personal story of a specific way God has clearly shown up in your life, big or small? I want to hear an account of the way He made Himself known to you and maybe received credit for an answered prayer or a way He worked out a situation in a miraculous way, or how He displayed His power in your life. There's no limit to the type of story to submit as long as it's true.

So please email me your story at this email address: info@thesavvysauce.com. I can't wait to read your story. Thanks for sharing.

[00:34:07] <Music>

Laura Dugger: What are some other important things that you'd like for us to know about female orgasm?

Dr. Jennifer Degler: I think it's important for women to know that age works in this area. You know, there are so many other areas where like, Oh, you know, I'm at peak of my strength and bone density when I'm in my 20s, and then it's all downhill from there.

But when it comes to your sexual response, women hit their sexual peak really in their 30s. And what we mean by sexual peak is the time from first stimulation to orgasm. You know, most people know that men reach their sexual peak somewhere around, you know, 18 to 20. But what that means is the first stimulation starts and then within two minutes, he's already ejaculated. So I don't call that a sexual peak. I actually call that premature ejaculation. So it depends on how you want to think about sexual peak.

But for women, you know, when they're in their 20s, it can be a challenge to get to orgasm. Sometimes I'll talk to women and they're just discouraged because maybe they've waited until they've gotten married, you know, they were trying to, like, okay, I really want to honor God with my sexuality. So, you know, they don't have sex until they get married. And then they're like, "He's having a good time and I'm not having a good time."

And for them to understand, as you get into your 30s and 40s, it will get easier and easier for your body to orgasm and you will need less and less stimulation to reach orgasm. And that's assuming you're not in sexual pain and that you and your husband do have that emotional connection and you have positive attitudes toward sex. So that's good news.

[00:35:59] Now, when a woman reaches menopause, which is the cessation of having a period, the average age of menopause is about fifty-one and a half. After that point, it can be more difficult for women's bodies to orgasm. But again, there are things that you can do and things that you can work on to help yourself during that time period.

So, you know, as a woman, not only every day of the month are we kind of different, but from year to year and from decade to decade our body is responding different sexually. So I love what you're doing, Laura, with this podcast because it's understanding, you know, that sex education class that maybe you had in sixth grade or seventh grade, that's only the start of our education.

We have to keep educating ourselves as women because we don't stay the same sexually. Our bodies don't stay the same. So we have to keep understanding, Okay, what is it like in this decade? Now that I've had children, what is this like? If I'm breastfeeding, how does that affect me sexually? What kinds of birth control and how does that affect me sexually?

So we just need to keep educating ourself, just like we do educate ourselves perhaps about other aspects of our health. Your sexual health is part of your overall health. So we want to keep educating ourselves.

Laura Dugger: [00:37:26] Thank you for that encouragement and even for the woman, maybe she's recently entered menopause, could you just give a few examples of those things that you're talking about that could help her with that transition?

Dr. Jennifer Degler: Well, certainly because dryness and a thinning of the walls of the vagina, that typically is what can cause women just in terms of their genitals, sex, if perhaps they hadn't had pain, they might start having pain because they're not lubricating as much and the actual vaginal tissues are not as elastic because of the decrease in estrogen.

So understanding that she may need some HRT, some hormone replacement therapy, and to talk to her doctor about that. Some women are very scared of that because a number of years ago there was a study that came out that linked the use of HRT with increased incidence of heart disease.

But you really need to talk to your doctor about your family's profile for heart disease. Because for some women that didn't really have a history of that and they didn't have a family history, it may raise their risk from 1% to 2% if they went on hormone replacement therapy. Well, that's not really increasing your risk very much, in my opinion.

And if HRT could keep you from having hot flashes and having a very difficult time with menopause, then that would be something to consider. So, again, you talk to your doctor about that to see whether some HRT could help with that transition through menopause.

And then you got to use it or lose it. It's a lot like walking. How a doctor will say, you know, you got to keep walking because you don't want to lose that mobility. And it's the same way we need to keep blood flowing to our genitals.

So to figure out what can we do, first of all, to make sure things aren't as painful for me, perhaps, you know, find a new lubricant and then a lot more foreplay, more creativity, taking more time with sex. But to keep blood flowing. The blood flow brings oxygen and brings good stuff to your genitals. So we want to keep that.

You know, if you're waiting and having sex once every 3 or 4 months, then particularly after menopause, that's not keeping those tissues in as good of health. So a lot of communication with your spouse and with your doctor. Many Ob-Gyn practices now have somebody that specifically works with menopause and hormonal issues.

A lot of times it might be a nurse practitioner, and that's what they focus on. So we've come a long way in that area, and it's definitely worth getting a consult with somebody if you're finding, Wow, I'm really struggling now that I'm in menopause.

Laura Dugger: [00:40:34] That is so interesting because what I'm hearing, too, is that blood brings life. And even in the way God designed us, doesn't that just reveal the gospel?

Dr. Jennifer Degler: I hadn't thought of that. But you are exactly right about that.

Laura Dugger: And then as we look for women of all ages, then are there any other ways that our physical health impacts our sexual response?

Dr. Jennifer Degler: Well, certainly obesity will decrease our sexual response. We do have an obesity epidemic here in the United States. So really being aware. And for women, I think, and for men, if we're obese, a lot of times we don't feel as sexy, we don't feel as attractive.

Now, I'm all about body positivity, and whatever weight you're at, I want you to love your body and know that your body can be sexually responsive and is beautiful. But we also do need to be realistic about the obesity effect because it affects circulation and it can affect the ability to even move in certain ways to create sexual pleasure.

So exercise is really helpful. Again, when we're exercising, we're creating endorphins. So that helps with pain relief. And it's getting blood flow to all parts of our body, including our genitals. And just to mention this as well, you know, if you are dealing with painful intercourse, sometimes that might be related to muscle tension in the pelvic area.

So exercise can help with that. Pelvic floor physical therapy can help with that. Certain yoga poses like happy baby pose and some diaphragmatic breathing can help. So realizing we are a trinity, we're created out of the love of the trinity and we're created in God's image, and God is a trinity. So we are two mind, body, and soul. And all of these things connect.

And realizing taking good care of our body not only helps our body be healthy enough, to be sexually responsive, but it also, since this message of value back to ourself. And a person who feels valuable and feels a healthy sense of self-esteem is somebody who's going to be sexually healthier and have, again, a connection with their body that helps make things go better in the bedroom.

Laura Dugger: [00:43:13] Well, is there anything else that just leaves you in awe of God's design of our bodies or in sex that we just haven't covered yet?

Dr. Jennifer Degler: Oh, my goodness, Laura, I could talk about this for about six days without stopping. So if I would just say that it's never too late. Sometimes when I'm talking to women, you can tell they're just... they feel discouraged because they've tried different things and nothing's helped so far. And their sex life has been a place of a lot of tears, maybe tears over physical pain or emotional pain, confusion.

If they are a sexual abuse survivor, oftentimes that abuse is impairing in some way their body's ability to feel safe and their body's ability to be comfortable even with sexual arousal. So they may need some therapy to help them reclaim what was taken from them so that they really do get to fully experience the passionate intimacy that God has designed for married couples.

So I just encourage women to not give up and to say, okay, maybe I'm going to make an appointment with a therapist. And now you can, you know, do so much over telehealth. So even if there isn't somebody in your area, maybe you could see somebody in another part of the country, but over telehealth.

Maybe you're realizing, "I don't trust my husband in some way and it's really hard, you know, being sexual with your husband is... it's very intimate and it makes you very vulnerable. And if you don't trust him on some level, it can be really hard to relax and enjoy sex.

So maybe there's some couples therapy. Maybe y'all need to read a book together. Maybe you need a marriage mentor or maybe you're not comfortable with your body and you have just a lot of loathing of your body. So maybe checking out some resources about how to overcome body shame. There's a lot of different things we can do.

And I encourage women, just pick one thing. You don't have to tackle everything at once. Just make one step towards improving your sexual health. And it's amazing how when you start taking one step and seeing some success there, then it opens up. Okay, well, I'm going to try this now. And you can really get a good momentum going. So it's never too late. No matter what your age, it's never too late. You're never too broken for Jesus to heal.

Laura Dugger: [00:46:04] That's so good. And really not many Christian women do the same work you do. So if somebody wants to look you up online to see if they can become a client or just want to find a way to learn more from you, where would you direct us?

Dr. Jennifer Degler: So currently I'm a clinical psychologist in Kentucky, and the way our licensure law works, I can only see counseling clients who are physically in the state of Kentucky. Now, we're trying to get reciprocity going with other states so I can do some coaching work with people across state lines over the phone.

But what I've done to try and help women that perhaps are not able to meet with me in person, they live somewhere else, is I created Fan the Flame: A Wife’s Guide to Igniting Sexual Intimacy in Marriage. And I have this as a webinar that you can listen to. It's really funny and it's very helpful. There's a really good 17-page outline that you can download and print out. This is something you and your husband can watch together. I go over the sexual fire triangle. And all the stuff I've said today, I say that and more. So it's really good information.

That's also available as a DVD. But if you just want to do the download and watch it on your computer or whatever, that's easier for a lot of people to do. You can find that resource at jenniferdegler.com. Another resource you can sign up for at jenniferdegler.com is our Dare of the Month. You can sign up and we will email you once a month a dare to help you initiate a creative sexual encounter with your husband.

Nothing nasty. It's something cute. It's just something fun to help you shift out of neutral sexually into drive and kind of get your pump primed so that you're thinking about sex and being creative and having fun. So that's a free resource that you can get once a month. There are blog posts there and different things like that at jenniferdegler.com to help with education.

But I would encourage women to start with Fan the Flame, watching that. It's a couple of hours. You can have a Fan the Flame party and buy two girlfriends over, print out an outline for everybody, eat chocolate, laugh, have a great time learning, and then go home and set your bedroom on fire.

Laura Dugger: [00:48:41] Oh, that is so fun. Thank you for sharing that. I will absolutely link to those resources in the show notes for today's episode. And you may be aware we are called The Savvy Sauce because savvy is synonymous with practical knowledge or insight. So as my final question for you today, Dr. Jennifer, what is your savvy sauce?

Dr. Jennifer Degler: My savvy sauce is I am responsible for my sexual pleasure. That's why this sexual fire triangle really matters. And those are three areas: Creating a sexually responsive body, creating emotional connection with my husband, and cultivating healthy biblical attitudes towards sex. That's the savvy sauce.

Ultimately, I'm the only one that can really make those three things happen. It's not my husband's job to give me an orgasm. Ultimately, it's about me taking responsibility and saying, I am a sexual person and this is something God has for me, and I am ready to step into this and really work on this so that I have every bit of pleasure that God has designed for me.

Laura Dugger: [00:50:07] Well, Jennifer, you are so humble and so hilarious and extremely knowledgeable. So I just want to say thank you for studying this topic and then being willing to share that helpful education with us. It was such an honor to get to host you as my guest today.

Dr. Jennifer Degler: Thank you, Laura. This has been fun. Thank you for the work you do.

Laura Dugger: [00:50:31] Ever since launching this podcast in 2018, our team has tried to release at least one episode every Monday morning. In addition, we also launched a secret bonus episode for paying patrons on the 1st of every month.

But in 2022, we're changing things up a bit. We will continue to release the bonus episode for paying patrons. But on those weeks when it's the 1st of the month, that will be the only episode going live, which means next week, on Monday, there will not be a brand new episode available for the general public.

If you've benefited from any messages on The Savvy Sauce, we would encourage you to support our work through joining Patreon. You can go to thesavvysauce.com, click on the "Patreon" tab, click "Join Patreon here" and then follow the prompts so that you can have access to all these bonus episodes and downloadable scripture cards. We hope you join us there. Otherwise, we'll see you back here in two weeks.

[00:51:28] One more thing before you go. Have you heard the term "gospel" before? It simply means good news. And I want to share the best news with you. But it starts with the bad news. Every single one of us were born sinners and God is perfect and holy, so He cannot be in the presence of sin. Therefore, we're separated from Him.

This means there's absolutely no chance we can make it to heaven on our own. So for you and for me, it means we deserve death and we can never pay back the sacrifice we owe to be saved. We need a savior. But God loved us so much, He made a way for His only son to willingly die in our place as the perfect substitute.

This gives us hope of life forever in right relationship with Him. That is good news. Jesus lived the perfect life we could never live and died in our place for our sin. This was God's plan to make a way to reconcile with us so that God can look at us and see Jesus.

We can be covered and justified through the work Jesus finished if we choose to receive what He has done for us. Romans 10:9 says that if you confess with your mouth Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved.

So would you pray with me now? Heavenly, Father, thank You for sending Jesus to take our place. I pray someone today right now is touched and chooses to turn their life over to You. Will You clearly guide them and help them take their next step in faith to declare You as Lord of their life? We trust You to work and change their lives now for eternity. In Jesus name, we pray, amen.

If you prayed that prayer, you are declaring Him for me, so me for Him, you get the opportunity to live your life for Him.

[00:53:27] At this podcast, we are called Savvy for a reason. We want to give you practical tools to implement the knowledge you have learned. So you're ready to get started?

First, tell someone. Say it out loud. Get a Bible. The first day I made this decision my parents took me to Barnes and Noble to get the Quest NIV Bible and I love it. Start by reading the book of John.

Get connected locally, which basically means just tell someone who is part of the church in your community that you made a decision to follow Christ. I'm assuming they will be thrilled to talk with you about further steps such as going to church and getting connected to other believers to encourage you.

We want to celebrate with you too. So feel free to leave a comment for us if you made a decision for Christ. We also have show notes included where you can read Scripture that describes this process.

Finally, be encouraged. Luke 15:10 says, "In the same way, I tell you, there is rejoicing in the presence of the angels of God over one sinner who repents." The heavens are praising with you for your decision today.

If you've already received this good news, I pray that you have someone else to share it with today. You are loved and I look forward to meeting you here next time.

Welcome to The Savvy Sauce

Practical chats for intentional living

A faith-based podcast and resources to help you grow closer to Jesus and others. Expect encouragement, surprises, and hope here. Each episode offers lively interviews with fascinating guests such as therapists, authors, non-profit founders, and business leaders.

They share their best practices and savvy tips we can replicate to make our daily life and relationships more enjoyable!