211. School Series: Benefits of Public School with Kelsey Kirk
Proverbs 3:13 (NIV) "Blessed are those who find wisdom, those who gain understanding,"
**Transcription Below**
Questions and Topics We Cover:
What is something you teach that is unique?
What systems have you put into place in your own classroom that have been most beneficial?
From your perspective, what are a few benefits of children attending public school?
Kelsey Kirk is an enthusiastic educator, who has taught for seven years. She is faith driven and aims to show God's love, grace, and patience through her words and actions in and outside of the classroom. Kelsey holds a master's degree in reading and is currently pursuing her second masters in professional school counseling. Outside of school, Kelsey enjoys spending time with her large family and her friends (bonus points if Pickleball is involved!).
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200 Planting Seeds of Faith in Our Children with Courtney DeFeo
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Gospel Scripture: (all NIV)
Romans 3:23 “for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,”
Romans 3:24 “and are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus.”
Romans 3:25 (a) “God presented him as a sacrifice of atonement, through faith in his blood.”
Hebrews 9:22 (b) “without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness.”
Romans 5:8 “But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us.”
Romans 5:11 “Not only is this so, but we also rejoice in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have now received reconciliation.”
John 3:16 “For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.”
Romans 10:9 “That if you confess with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.”
Luke 15:10 says “In the same way, I tell you, there is rejoicing in the presence of the angels of God over one sinner who repents.”
Romans 8:1 “Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus”
Ephesians 1:13–14 “And you also were included in Christ when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation. Having believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit, who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God’s possession- to the praise of his glory.”
Ephesians 1:15–23 “For this reason, ever since I heard about your faith in the Lord Jesus and your love for all the saints, I have not stopped giving thanks for you, remembering you in my prayers. I keep asking that the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the glorious Father, may give you the spirit of wisdom and revelation, so that you may know him better. I pray also that the eyes of your heart may be enlightened in order that you may know the hope to which he has called you, the riches of his glorious inheritance in the saints, and his incomparably great power for us who believe. That power is like the working of his mighty strength, which he exerted in Christ when he raised him from the dead and seated him at his right hand in the heavenly realms, far above all rule and authority, power and dominion, and every title that can be given, not only in the present age but also in the one to come. And God placed all things under his feet and appointed him to be head over everything for the church, which is his body, the fullness of him who fills everything in every way.”
Ephesians 2:8–10 “For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith – and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God – not by works, so that no one can boast. For we are God‘s workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do.“
Ephesians 2:13 “But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far away have been brought near through the blood of Christ.“
Philippians 1:6 “being confident of this, that he who began a good work in you will carry it on to completion until the day of Christ Jesus.”
**Transcription**
[00:00:00] <music>
Laura Dugger: Welcome to The Savvy Sauce, where we have practical chats for intentional living. I'm your host, Laura Dugger, and I'm so glad you're here.
[00:00:18] <music>
Laura Dugger: Leman Property Management Company has the apartment you will be able to call home, with over 1,700 apartment units available in Central Illinois. Visit them today at Lemanproperties.com or connect with them on Facebook.
We are continuing our series to learn from teachers in various schooling options, public, private, and homeschool. Today, we get to learn from public school teacher Kelsey Kirk.
When we moved homes and schools last year, Kelsey was a godsend as a third-grade teacher for our eldest daughter, Selah. She is enthusiastic, faith-driven, and committed to showing God's love inside and outside the classroom. I hope this school series continues to challenge and equip parents to ponder which option may be best for their children at this time. [00:01:20]
Here's our chat. Welcome to The Savvy Sauce, Kelsey.
Kelsey Kirk: Thank you so much for having me. I am so excited for this opportunity to chat with you today.
Laura Dugger: Well, will you just begin by sharing your personal testimony with us?
Kelsey Kirk: Yeah, absolutely. I grew up in Morton, Illinois. I actually am the baby of six kids, so I grew up with a big, fun family filled with just so many activities and chaos, but just beautiful, fun chaos. Grew up actually going to private school. So, preschool through sixth grade, I attended a Lutheran private school. Then I transitioned to the public junior high and high school. So, I do have a little bit of experience both in the private sector and in the public sector.
I was raised in a Lutheran church as well, so I had that experience growing up. Faith has always been a very big part of my life. I've always known, actually, that I've wanted to teach. [00:02:21]
So, I've said from very, very young, even when I was little and people would ask me what I wanted to do, I would always say that I wanted to be a teacher. And anytime that I had friends over and they would allow me to, I would always say, let's play school. And I would get out my markers and get out my crayons and pretend to be a teacher. It's just always been something that's been very enticing. I did go down that path, and now I have been a teacher for... I finished my seventh year. So, going into this year will be my eighth year teaching, and I still love it.
Laura Dugger: That's incredible. It's kind of funny to picture our eldest daughter, Selah. Right now, you and I are getting to record in person in our home. And in the room next to us right now that you can't see, our children have school set up, and typically Selah is the teacher for Shiloh and Isla and Kessler. So, they are following in your footsteps with that.
But like you said, for seven years, you've educated children in a public school setting. [00:03:21] So, what do you love most about your job?
Kelsey Kirk: I love working with kids. The kids are absolutely the best part of my job. I take so much pride and put so much effort into creating strong relationships with my students, relationships that will last and continue with them even after they're out of my class.
But I really, really love seeing in class how my students grow and those light bulb moments when you can tell their understanding, especially in the elementary setting. They show all their emotions on their face. So, when they have those aha moments and they're excited, that just fills me to the brim. I just love seeing those moments with students.
I love how every single day is different. You truly never know what you're going to get when you go to school that day, but I do know every single day we're going to laugh. There's going to be so many great moments of just laughter. I think that's so important as well. [00:04:27]
The learning is fantastic and such a priority, but I also want it to be a fun space that students want to go to and that I want to be in, right, that I have fun in every day. So, I love the kids, and I love the fun that we have every day.
Laura Dugger: And that makes sense, even getting to witness you, you're so gifted at relationship building. And with those students, I'm assuming that they're more open to learn when they trust you and they're in a warm, inviting relationship. But are there any practical ways that come to mind that you really try and engage with each of them? Because you're having class sizes over 25 kids.
Kelsey Kirk: Right. Yes, I do think you have to be very intentional. One of my goals is to make sure that I am giving students specific praise and that I'm varying it. But it can be challenging, like you said, when you have so many different students. [00:05:26] I actually have a checklist. It's a Google form, basically, that has all my students' names, and it has all the months of the school year. And every time that I give a student, like, a specific shout-out for something, let's say, I could really tell that they were putting in a solid effort with something, it was challenging them, but they did not give up, and they really used their determination, I really try to make sure to vocalize that specific compliment to them.
And then I will try afterwards to remember to check their box. And so I know that I've hit that student, but I can see the ones that I haven't hit yet. And then I can be more intentional about watching those students and making sure that I'm checking all of their boxes. Because, you know, the day is long, and it can get busy, and it can get chaotic. Some days, at the end of the day, I don't remember who all I made sure I touched base with. So, having a little checklist definitely helps me. But I want every student to know that they are special, and they have specific and special gifts. [00:06:28] So, just trying to touch on those for every student is important.
Laura Dugger: That's super helpful, even as a parent, that you've not only had that vision that you want to add specific encouragement to them, but you've put this system in place that makes it a habit, and so it actually happens. That is such a great takeaway, so thank you for sharing that.
Kelsey Kirk: Of course.
Laura Dugger: Is there anything that you teach that is unique that maybe isn't available in all the other schooling options?
Kelsey Kirk: Obviously, in the public school sector, we do have a pretty particular and specific curriculum that we have to follow for all of the academic topics. So, all of those curriculums have been reviewed throughout the district, and we make sure that those are really rich and robust for the student learning, which is fantastic. And I think the academics are such a huge part to school. But that happens in every public school. Those academic pieces are really important. I really try to add in the social-emotional component to all of my academics. [00:07:32]
So, the academics, like I said, are super, super important, and I try to tie in those social-emotional learning pieces when I can. For example, in math, if a question is really challenging, we might take a quick break and say, "This is so challenging. What do we do when something is really challenging us? How do we problem-solve through that?" Or if a student gets an answer incorrect, and, you know, you can tell the other students are really knowing that that was an incorrect answer, we can take a pause and say, "Hey, that answer wasn't correct this time. What do we do when we make a mistake, or how do we handle it when we're wrong?" Just really trying to be purposeful about tying in as much social-emotional learning as I can throughout the entire day, and all the academic subjects as well.
Laura Dugger: That's so helpful, and sounds like such an organic way to teach them that, because then any situation can really be a teaching moment or opportunity. [00:08:35] Do you have any other kind of systems that you've put in place in your own classroom that you've seen now have been most beneficial?
Kelsey Kirk: I feel like I could go on and on and on about this forever, because there are so many different things I have learned from teachers that I have so much respect for. I really do love that teaching is such a community space, basically, between teachers. Teachers are always so willing to help other teachers, which I'm so thankful for.
I'm so thankful that there are spaces like Instagram, now that you can follow other teachers, and Pinterest, where you can get so many different ideas. I've definitely taken great things from all of those spaces.
But one thing that I have found super beneficial in my class, a system that I have, is our goal-setting system. Every Friday, my class will sit down in a family meeting. We call it a family meeting or a family circle. [00:09:33] And we sit down in a circle on the floor, and we have a very candid conversation about what went well that week, and we celebrate what went well. But then we also have a conversation about what they think was not going well that week.
It's really surprising, honestly, how quickly the students are able to have really kind of vulnerable conversations about what they need to work on. So, I really let the students lead that conversation, especially once we get deeper into the school year and we've worked on it. But the students will identify three goals that they would like to work on as a group for the next week.
So, maybe they've noticed that students are shouting out a lot, and that's been distracting to them. And so, they make a goal that the following week, they would like to only have 10 times that someone is shouting out. We try to make them really specific so that we can actually measure those goals. And then when we sit back down that next Friday, we talk about, did we meet the goal that we set last week?
So, on Friday, we set those goals, usually around three goals. [00:10:36] On Monday morning, when we get to school we will review what goals we're working on for that week. And on Friday, when we sit back down for a family meeting again, we touch base to see if we've met those goals. And then if we're going to, you know, check off that goal and move on to another goal, or if we're going to continue working on that same goal for the next week.
Laura Dugger: I'm even envisioning this as... I wonder if tears come up at this point. Are there ever times where there's interpersonal relationships where they're working out conflict? Maybe somebody wasn't kind to another student. Is it that kind of conversation that arises as well?
Kelsey Kirk: I do set up pretty strict expectations at the beginning of the year that there will be times that we are, you know, talking about things that aren't going well. And maybe you will feel in your heart like that is something you really need to personally work on. But I do tell the students going into all those conversations that we are a team. [00:11:37] Our class is a team. The point of this conversation is never to make anyone feel bad. So we will not ever be naming names.
All of these conversations, we're working on having these conversations to grow. We're not having these conversations just to complain or to kind of tattle on anyone. That is not the purpose.
So when we're stating what we need to work on, the students do not say, Oh, you know, so and so and so and so keep shouting out. They say, I would like us to work on raising our hand more. And try to really help them learn how to state what behavior they would like to have instead of just complaining about the negative behavior, if that makes sense.
Laura Dugger: That totally makes sense. I want to clarify, not in a negative way, tears coming up. I just envision this being such great training for interpersonal relationships in all aspects of adulthood, whether this is employer-employee relationships or coworkers or marriage, or in parenting. [00:12:41] And so I wondered when you were saying that they were owning their own things... I wonder... it sounds like a lot of transparency comes up, which is awesome.
Kelsey Kirk: I will say there are students who will say then and be vulnerable and say, I know that that is something that I need to work on, you guys, and I'm going to work on it. I have definitely had moments where students have spoken up and been vulnerable and said, "I really am going to work on that." And it's so beautiful how the kids react just like with empathy and grace. And they're like, "You've got this. You can do it." That's awesome. So it is fun.
I will say another component to that family meeting after we do the goal setting is compliments. The students I have a bag with all their pictures in it and they pass around the bag and they just randomly pull a picture. They have to look that student in the eye and tell that student something awesome that they had done during that week.
I tell the students it cannot be about what the person looks like on the outside, anything that they're wearing, or how they look. It needs to be about something that's on the inside about their heart or something that they had done that brought joy to that other student. [00:13:48]
So at the beginning of the year, that's really challenging for them. So they have a hard time maintaining eye contact when they're giving the compliment and they really want to say something like, "I like your shoes." But by the end of the year, the depth of their compliments bring students to tears when they're receiving the compliments.
To be honest, there are a lot of Fridays that I am moved to tears by the beautiful things that the students are noticing in each other that I had no idea. I had no idea those things were happening, but the students were noticing those things in each other. And it's just a really, really lovely experience.
Laura Dugger: That's incredible. I'm even getting teary-eyed just envisioning it now because you hear of children who exchanged compliment lists and how, you know, 30 years later you find it in their wallets and how meaningful that is. [00:14:44] And so very much appreciate that impact that you're having on all of these students.
Are there any other systems that you can think of?
Kelsey Kirk: Yes. Another thing that kind of goes along with that empathy piece and being kind to each other is teaching students about the zones of regulation. At my school, we focus on those zones being the green zone. You're ready to learn. You're doing great. You're feeling great. You're focused.
The blue zone might be you're feeling a little bit sad. Maybe you're feeling a little bit sleepy or just a little bit off.
Yellow zone is I'm starting to feel a little bit frustrated. I'm having a hard time. I can feel maybe my heart is racing or I'm feeling nervous.
Then the red zone is when I'm really having a hard time.
So we teach these zones. I teach these zones explicitly to the students and other people in the school do as well, like our school social worker. The students learn about these zones, but then they also learn how to get themselves back to the green zone. [00:15:49]
So we talk about if I'm in the yellow zone, what are some specific things I can do to get myself back to the green zone? Or if I see a friend who looks like they're in the blue zone, how could I partner with that friend to help get them back to the green zone?
So it really builds a lot of empathy within the classroom that we're not always all going to be in the green zone. There's going to be different times when you're in a different zone or a friend is in a different zone, and there's nothing wrong with that. That is just the human emotion and the human existence. But how can we all help each other to get back to the green zone?
So I've really seen that help so much with building empathy, especially when students see their peers struggling. Instead of shying away from it and looking away and thinking, you know, feeling uncomfortable by that, they learn how to approach those different emotions and partner with their peers to help them feel better. [00:16:46]
Laura Dugger: Wow. What is a specific example that you would give them, both if they are wanting to get back to the green zone themselves or they're trying to encourage their friend to get back there?
Kelsey Kirk: Absolutely. If a student themselves, let's say they're getting into the yellow zone and they're feeling frustrated, we do talk a lot about breathing exercises. You know, close your eyes for a second, take a couple deep breaths.
I worky third grade, which is the grade that I teach. I talk a lot with my students about telling themselves affirmations. So when you take a deep breath in, say an affirmation that will help you in that moment. Like if they were having a hard time with a problem and they know that they didn't get the problem correct and they're really struggling with that, they can close their eyes and breathe in and say, mistakes are okay. And then as they exhale, they say something else like "mistakes help me learn". So as they breathe in, mistakes are okay, exhale, mistakes help me learn. [00:17:49]
Then they just repeat that and say those two phrases five, ten times, however many breaths they need. Breath work is so important. I feel like pairing it up with an affirmation really helps even more. So that has been a wonderful thing. When students see someone else that is struggling.
A lot of times in school, we're taught the golden rule, which there's totally a place for that. Treat everyone as you would like to be treated. But not everyone likes to be treated the same in moments when they're feeling different emotions.
So we talk about that as well. Some students who are in the blue zone, they might want a hug that will really help. Other students that are in the blue zone just need a little bit of space. So I really encourage my students to approach that student if you're noticing that they're struggling and you might say something like, "Hey, you look like you might be in the blue zone. How could I help you to feel better?" And then coaching students through how to respond to that.
If you are having a hard time, you could say, "I would love a hug. That would really help." Or "I just need a little bit of space, but thanks for checking." Things like that. [00:18:58] But trying to encourage the students to advocate for what they need and teaching students that every response is going to be different because we are all different and we all need different things to feel better.
Laura Dugger: Let's take a quick break to hear a message from our sponsor.
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[00:21:07] <music>
Laura Dugger: Well, Kelsey, one other system that comes to mind for me is from your classroom, Selah came home at the end of the school year and she drew up on a big poster board, mommy to-do list. I can't remember what it was called, but then she had post-its out. So if I was not available or if I was engaged in conversation with another one of her sisters, any of them could write a thought or a question or a request on a post-it note. And that way it doesn't escape their mind. So that came from your classroom. How does it work in your classroom?
Kelsey Kirk: That was something I found on Pinterest. That was very helpful. It's just a poster board and at the top of it, it says teacher to-do list. You talked and spoke on the class size. Last school year, I had 27 students in my class and they all have things to say all day long. And all of those things feel very important for them in the time that they're wanting to tell me, which is completely understandable. [00:22:11] But just like in parenting, I'm sure we don't always have the bandwidth to address all of those things in that exact moment.
But I don't want the student to feel like I'm just negating that or that I don't think it's important. So if it's not a great time to touch base on whatever they're wanting to chat about in that moment, I just say, Hey, could you jot that on a post-it note and put it on my to-do list? When we have a minute, you and I can touch base about that.
Or oftentimes it's just silly things like, don't forget we have a disassembly at this time. And I'm like, "Great, thank you so much for helping me with that. Jot it down on a post-it note, put it on the to-do list." And it just validates whatever they're trying to say but it also gives me the freedom as a teacher to continue doing whatever we're doing and then get to that when I have time.
Laura Dugger: Yes, that makes sense. I think it's very helpful, again, in a really practical way. Something I hadn't even thought of until this conversation, I want to sing your praises. [00:23:13] And it's something that you did so well at Christmas time, I believe it was over Christmas break, maybe, we were reading aloud a book at home. I want to say it's Christmas Stories from the Heart, something like that. But there's a collection of them. And one was really moving to Selah, a true story, where she was inspired to carry out what the kids in the book did, where they would... I think within their family, they drew a name of somebody to watch and serve and encourage and just show quiet acts of kindness.
She was so excited about this idea, and she brought it to you and you implemented this into the classroom. And she felt so validated for you to take her idea seriously. And that was such a highlight of her year. Because I think at the end of the week, they all had to guess who their secret encourager was.
Kelsey Kirk: So sweet that you say that. I'm so glad if she felt validated in that. Truly, when she brought that idea, I was like, "That is fantastic. I love that." [00:24:16] So basically how it worked was at the beginning of the week, on Monday, the students all drew someone's name, once again, completely random. And they felt like they were being so sneaky. Like it was so cute, even just watching them draw the names, because they would try to hide them. And so sweet.
Then throughout the week, you were supposed to focus on that student and try to give them as much encouragement and just show up for them in different ways. So we talked about different ways of how you could show up for that person. Like if you notice they have their hands full, maybe you could offer to carry something into the class for them. Or maybe their pencil box falls off their desk, and you're the first one to get up and go help them. Or maybe at recess, you could offer for them to play whatever game you're playing. If you can tell that they've done something different with their hair, you know, even give a compliment for things like that.
Then on Friday during that family meeting time, we started doing that as well. [00:25:20] So the students would have to guess who had them as their secret student. It was always so fun.
Laura Dugger: Well, thank you again for implementing that.
Kelsey Kirk: Of course.
Laura Dugger: What would you say you see as the most important thing for students to learn or master at a young age?
Kelsey Kirk: I think a very, very important skill for students to learn in elementary school is problem-solving. Especially in the elementary level when the problems are often smaller, they can build their confidence with their problem-solving. And then that just builds the building blocks for them to be able to problem-solve larger problems into adulthood.
So I really, really focus on having open-ended problems that the students have to work through, either individually or with a team. I think there's a ton of value in having a diverse group of students that all come from different backgrounds. Their parents all problem-solve differently, their siblings all problem-solve differently. But when they come into the classroom, they have to problem-solve together. [00:26:34]
So giving students problems that don't even necessarily have a correct answer and allowing them to talk through those problems, and then talk to different groups that have different opinions and almost have a healthy debate of this is our thought, this is our group's thought, and talk about the differences between them. I still want the students to be able to be confident in their decision and respectfully listen to a group that has a different opinion as them. So I think that kind of respectful debate and problem-solving is so, so important at such a young age.
Laura Dugger: What would you say is the most helpful way that you envision parents partnering with schools or partnering with teachers for the benefit of the children?
Kelsey Kirk: I am always so, so thankful when parents are willing to partner with me in the classroom. [00:27:33] Teachers are always wanting to be on a team with parents. We're never going against parents. We're always trying to come together for the benefit of all of our students.
I really, really appreciate when parents are willing to volunteer in the class and bring cheerful energy to the classroom. But I completely understand that that is not always an option for every parent. There are parents that work and can't always come in during the day. I love when parents even email and say, "Hey, is there anything you're out of in your classroom that I could bless your class with right now? Is there anything that you guys could use?" I'm always so thankful for that.
But I also really appreciate when parents support their kids and help their kids stay organized through the classroom. So when I send a folder home at the end of the day with mailbox papers, by third grade, which is what I teach, I really try to tell students that it's their responsibility to take their folder out when they get home and take those papers out and make sure their parents are seeing any papers that are necessary. [00:28:45] But I also understand that when students get home, they probably need a little support in that.
So I appreciate when parents help their students to stay organized. And I appreciate when parents encourage independence and accountability in their children. Just like I'm sure for parents, even as a teacher, when I see a student who is struggling with something, or they forgot something, or I so often want to go and rescue them from that feeling, right? Because you don't want them to sit in that discomfort always. But I have to remind myself that there is so much educational value and so much opportunity for growth and just letting them kind of have that natural consequence.
For example, if a student forgets an iPad, I'm not going to call home to say, "Please bring that iPad." I think that the student can learn more if they have to go that whole day without their iPad. We will be fine without it for a day, but they will probably feel that for a little bit. [00:29:45]
I really appreciate when parents allow their children to kind of have those natural consequences instead of rescuing them from all of those situations immediately, if that makes sense.
Laura Dugger: Yes. Because I'm assuming then the students even learn faster, maybe sometimes just with one occurrence where they feel the weight of that responsibility rather than the parents swooping in and owning the responsibility so the child doesn't feel that.
Kelsey Kirk: Absolutely. I will say also, I think emailing is an awesome way to communicate with teachers. So there will definitely be times that I send out whole class emails as communication, but there's also times where I email a parent about a specific situation with their student.
I also encourage parents always if they need clarification on something or if they're confused about something or want to know more about a situation, please, please email me. I always am happy to email back and have that communication. [00:30:47]
I will say this year I had even said at the beginning at Meet the Teacher, and I don't know if you remember this, but you were obviously in my Meet the Teacher, and for the first time this last school year, I made a point to say to all the parents, "Hey, my working hours are 8 o'clock to 3:30, and that's when I'm available for email. So if you email me after 3:30, I actually have my notifications turned off, I will not see your email until I get to school the next morning."
And I'm just setting that boundary so that I can take care of myself when I'm outside of school and I can rejuvenate so that I can show up to be the best I can for your students during the school day. And it felt hard, right? It felt very hard to set that boundary. Then afterwards, I don't know if you even remember, but you totally validated that for me, which I was so, so thankful for that you had said that afterwards.
It was a really, really great thing for me this year to just have those notifications off because we can be thinking about things all the time, right? [00:31:50] When I leave school, I am still constantly thinking about my students and thinking about how the day went and thinking about, you know, what things are happening at home. There's different family situations that I think about as well. So when I have those email notifications, that even just compacts on top of it.
So I think it's great to email, but I really, really appreciate when parents also respect the boundary that I am a person outside of school as well and I need to have a break outside of my working hours.
Laura Dugger: I very much remember that night. And as soon as you said it, Mark and I even turned to each other and we're just discussing it was such a great way to model how to be healthy and how to have appropriate boundaries and be very kind by being very clear upfront. So we actually really appreciated that. It does make sense that you have a life outside of school. So we really appreciate you stating that so clearly upfront.
Kelsey Kirk: Thank you. [00:32:49] I did just think about one more thing with emailing with parents this year that I had said. There was a note. It was called Handle with Care. I told the parents at the beginning of the school year, "If there is something that happened the night before or your student didn't get a great night of sleep or they woke up and you can tell in the morning they are having a more challenging day, please just send me an email. And you can just put in the subject line Handle with Care or HWC." I don't need to know all the details. I understand that there are things and families that you hold within your family.
But that just really, really helped me as a teacher to know when to give a student more grace. When I had that email in the morning and I knew that a student was struggling, I didn't need to talk to them necessarily about the specific thing that they were struggling with. But I really tried to be intentional that day to make it a great day at school for them. [00:33:49] To just notice something awesome that they were doing or give them a little bit more patience if they needed more reminders.
And I think that really helped me to make the learning space a place where students just felt safe even on the days when they weren't showing up at 100%.
Laura Dugger: I love that because I think it boils down to healthy communication between the parents and the teacher. And that relationship is very important and overflows into the child's relationship with both parent and teacher.
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Kelsey, what positive impact do you see public school making in the lives of students and the community?
Kelsey Kirk: I love how in public school students can make friends with kids that are outside of their direct neighborhood. I remember even when I was growing up, we would go outside and it was the people who lived within a biking range, right? You hop on your bike and that's your friend's circle.
I think it's really fun in schools that students get exposure to kids that live in different areas than they do and just exposure to more diversity. Different neighborhoods just bring different dynamics. And I think it's awesome in the public school setting that students have a little bit more exposure to that.
Laura Dugger: You even experienced that with going back to your personal life when you grew up in private school and then junior high and high school you attended public school. [00:35:56] So even speaking from that experience, was there any benefit that you saw specifically of your time in public school?
Kelsey Kirk: Mm-mm. In the private school that I went to, I had a great experience there and it was wonderful. No one in my neighborhood that I lived in went to that private school. I was the only one. I guess the neighbors directly next to me, they did. But the rest of the neighborhood who I hung out with, those kids all went to the public school.
A lot of times I felt like I was really missing out on the things that they were doing because they would come home and talk about the things that they were experiencing in school. And they were all kind of having that shared experience and I was having a completely separate experience as them.
So we could totally bridge that gap and it was fine. But I really loved once I went to the public school that the friends that I had made in my community, I was able to be with them and experience that school with them. [00:36:56]
Laura Dugger: This whole series has been a great opportunity to hear from various teachers in all these forms of schooling options. We share the common goal just to help parents consider what school setting may be a best fit for their family at this time. So from your perspective, what are a few benefits of children attending public school?
Kelsey Kirk: I will preface this by saying I think that education can be so different. The best thing is not always going to be public school for every child. Sometimes a student will thrive the most in homeschool. Sometimes they will thrive the most in private school.
And even within a family, I could see whereas one sibling would be great in one setting and another sibling would be great in another setting. So I think that it's great to be open-minded about the different opportunities and the different paths that people can go down. [00:37:57] I don't think there's anything wrong with even trying multiple paths throughout the schooling experience. You might try a private school and that might not be working. And so then you can transition, right? You're not set in stone on any of these paths once you start.
But I do think there are benefits to public school. One of them would be that in public school, there are a lot, a lot of resources. So if a student maybe requires some more care or some additional resources, that's a wonderful place for students who need a little bit of additional help. We really, really advocate for the needs of students and really try to show up in ways for different students that's the most beneficial for them. So I think those additional resources are great.
I did mention the diversity piece in school. But I also think that it's great in public school that there are a lot of students. [00:39:00] So, for example, the school that I work in, there's two classes of every grade level. And that gives students the opportunity the next year to be with a different group of students.
I know when I was in private school, we only had one class and I was with those same 25 students from first grade all the way through sixth grade. And sometimes that created a little bit of a challenging dynamic that there was never any switch up with that. So in the public school, we are able to mix those groups up every year and give students just exposure to working with different people and opportunities to making different friends every year.
Laura Dugger: I love that. I really haven't slowed down to consider that. It really has been our experience because we do have our neighborhood friends or our church friends or shared experience friends, like if our kids are in the same gymnastics class or something like that. But then also we have met families in the community and formed great friendships with people that we may have never crossed paths with. [00:40:07] So that is an added benefit.
Kelsey Kirk: I will say as well, living in my community here, I live in the same town that I teach in. When I first started teaching, I did not. I lived in a separate town that I taught in and I kind of wanted that space when I was first starting. And that was great.
When I moved back to this town, I was ready to live in the community that I teach in. That has been a wonderful thing where when I go to church on Sunday, I'm seeing some of my students. Or if I go play pickleball, I might run into my students at the courts. Or, you know, even if I'm just going to Dairy Queen to get ice cream, I will likely run into students. It has just been a very fun experience to kind of mesh all of my worlds, but particularly with going to church.
Obviously, in the public sector, that's not always something that we can talk about openly. [00:41:09] But to have some of my students know that we have that shared connection has been something that's really cool.
I think for parents who are of faith and for children that do have faith, that's even a really cool component that they can bring to public school. I have seen students who at recess are chatting with their peers who maybe don't go to church. And they come back in from recess and tell me about the things that they learned about God and about Jesus from their peers that are going to church.
So I think that being in a public school gives opportunities for students who are believers and who do love God the chance to stand up for those beliefs and the chance to teach other students who might not have that exposure kind of opens some of those doors. So those students have the opportunity to share some of God's gifts with people who maybe have never seen those before. [00:42:15]
Laura Dugger: And you're bringing up another memory. It was so special this past year. We had Selah pray about this for a year because when she was seven, she had given her life to the Lord and wanted to be baptized. After praying about it for a year, she felt like she was led to be baptized in our home church. And you were there. She invited you to attend that.
Her principal was invited and came. And her aide in your classroom and one of the co-op students. It was so beautiful to see these different relationships and these different women who are mentors of hers in different arenas to come and have that blend of the spiritual side as well.
Kelsey Kirk: Yes. It's nice, obviously, where we live. I have more opportunity for that, which has been such a wonderful part about living here. But you mentioning the women in her life and the role models in her life also made me think about how I was reading one time that a huge impact on children's success into adulthood is the number of healthy adult relationships they have in childhood. [00:43:24]
I really think in the public school sector, we have such a large staff. We have so many different staff members. I think that can also give students the opportunity to form really strong relationships with adults in their lives as well throughout their whole schooling experience.
So they might really bond with a teacher and they know they can go back and talk with that teacher or they might really bond with the principal or maybe it's the nurse if they're going to the nurse a lot. But there's just so many different adults there that serve in so many different roles and even paraprofessionals who are with them so often as well. There's just so many opportunities for them to form healthy relationships with adults that I think is really wonderful.
Laura Dugger: For any parents still deciding which school option is best for their children, what are a few of your favorite reasons to recommend they do consider public school? [00:44:25]
Kelsey Kirk: I think that there is a strong academic standing in public school. All of those curriculums have to be tested and reviewed. We do take the academic side very serious. Teachers are definitely held to a standard with the academic content, which is very important in school as well.
So my test scores are all being reviewed. I sit down in meetings with my principal and with the other third-grade teacher and with coaches in the district to look at my results and see what I'm doing, what's working, and then also be realistic and be vulnerable about what I could be doing better. So it's wonderful to work in a public school where I do have a team of educators that is so driven to helping students learn. That's really a strong focus, which is great.
One thing about public school is that it's called public school, right? [00:45:26] It's supposed to be a public experience. There's not supposed to be secret things happening. If a parent ever has a concern about something that's happening in the public school, or they're worried about the progress that their student is making, parents do have a lot of options for requesting different services that are legally mandated.
So if parents email the school and say, "Hey, I'm concerned about the progress that my student is making. Can we please sit down for a meeting to chat about their academic progress?" Then you can have a meeting with that student's problem-solving team, which would likely include the principal, that grade-level teacher. Often it includes the school psych, maybe a speech teacher, maybe a social worker.
But parents can sit down with all of those people and talk about how their student is doing. Parents are also able to even come in for observations if they're worried. [00:46:31] You can say, "Hey, I really want to see how my student is doing in school and how they are functioning in the classroom. Could I please come in and observe?" And schools do have to honor that.
It has to be scheduled in advance, obviously. But it's not supposed to be a scary place where you send your student and then you don't know what's going on. If you want to have meetings to chat about progress or if you're concerned and you want your student to be evaluated, you are able to request those things and schools will work with you on those.
I also think in a public school there's a great sense of community. Moving back to the town where I grew up in, now, when I'm in the community and I run into people that maybe I knew from high school and they ask me what I'm doing and I say the school that I'm teaching at, it is so funny to see people light up and they say, "That's the school that I went to. Like, go Lettie Brown Bears." [00:47:31] And they still have the Brown Bear pride.
I think it's just a wonderful thing for a student to be a part of that community and a community that they can look back on for years and years and remember, "I was a part of that. I really had pride in that. And that was something that was part of shaping me when I was growing up." So I think that that's a great point in attending public school.
Then I just really would like to reiterate that I think public school gives students an awesome opportunity to show the gifts that they're given and it also allows them to have their own dynamic within their class. So a little bit different than homeschooling, maybe where if you're at home and your family dynamic is happening and then you're at school and kind of that same dynamic can kind of continue happening. [00:48:31] Or if you're at private school and your class is the same every year, that kind of keeps that dynamic the same. And I think in public school, one of the different things is that that dynamic is going to change every single year because the class is going to change every year. And you're not always necessarily going to be with your siblings.
So if there is a younger sibling, maybe that really kind of, you know, is trying so hard, but cannot ever beat their older sibling and things, and they're having a challenging time with that, maybe when they go to their public school class, they're able to shine in ways that really make them feel special and unique within that class setting. That they're not always necessarily... at no fault of any of the parents or family dynamics. They're just not always able to feel that at home, they might be able to feel that in school.
Laura Dugger: Do you have any specific encouragement that you want to share with the parents or with the students who are listening?
Kelsey Kirk: Mm-mm. I would say to students and the parents, your teachers love you. [00:49:35] Teachers are teaching because they love the students, love to see students grow, and love to partner with families. I have loved meeting different families and creating different relationships with different families that I've had through school that I wouldn't necessarily be able to have if those families weren't attending the public school. So it's been fantastic for me just to create those relationships.
And when students come back, oh, nothing will make a teacher more happy than if a student comes back and says, Hey, I missed you and just wanted to say hi. Even when they're just in the next grade level or when they transition to a different school, if they come back or if they send teachers an email, that is just so validating and so incredible for teachers.
Truly, the last day of school is always so bittersweet for me because I love summer just like kids love summer. And teachers have worked so hard all year to form these deep relationships with students. [00:50:41] And you really want the students to do the best they can. Teachers become so invested in the lives of their students because they have spent a whole year together learning about them and watching them grow.
So I always tell my students towards the end of the school year, I will always be on your team. And I truly, truly do mean that. So when you go to junior high, if, you know, you have an awesome concert that you want to email me about because it was so you were so proud of yourself and it was so exciting, I would love to hear about it. Or if you have a track meet and, you know, you would really like me to be there, send me a schedule and I would love to show up.
Or when you graduate from high school or when you graduate from college or when you get married, and they all laugh and giggle, I... you know, teachers would love to be invited to those things and continue to be a part of those students lives because we do truly feel so invested in the success of every student that we have. [00:51:46]
Laura Dugger: Again, you are exceptional at investing in the lives of others and in the lives of your students. And I can see why that would be so rewarding when they circle back when they don't have to.
Kelsey Kirk: Absolutely.
Laura Dugger: And touch base. I bet it's fun to see them... They look so different and act so much more mature if you see them in high school after having them in third grade. That would be unique.
Kelsey Kirk: Thank you so much for validating that for me. That's so sweet of you to say.
Laura Dugger: Well, Kelsey, you know that we are called The Savvy Sauce because "savvy" is synonymous with practical knowledge or discernment. So is my final question for you today, what is your savvy sauce?
Kelsey Kirk: So kind of like we were talking about with students and being intentional about complimenting them or really making them feel seen, I try whenever I walk away from any interaction that I have, I try to think what is something that I liked about that interaction or what is something I liked about that person. [00:52:47] And I try to be very intentional of thinking what was a positive that came from that, what's something lovely about that person? And that really puts me into a more positive mindset about that person or about the experience that I had.
And then bonus points. If you share that compliment with the person. When I'm sitting in my class and we have those compliment circles, I am very able to give a student a really rich compliment and really be vulnerable in that way. But I find sometimes when I'm with adults, it feels a little bit trickier to vocalize that compliment.
So I'm trying to challenge myself to not only think those positive thoughts, but then also to share those with the people that I encounter. I really think that that is a way for me to share God's love with the people that I come across because everyone loves to hear those validations. [00:53:51] And if I'm thinking them and God is putting those thoughts into my mind, I want to share those things with other people.
Laura Dugger: Well, you truly live out what you're intending to. A quick little story. Selah and Shiloh and I have been involved in a mother-daughter Bible study all summer.
Kelsey Kirk: Fun.
Laura Dugger: And there was a previous Savvy Sauce guest, Courtney DeFeo, and she talked about the treasured Bible study. So that's the one we've been going through. And it's been wonderful to connect with other mothers and daughters in the community.
There was one week that we were studying about friendship and ultimately being a friend of God, but also being a good friend to others, and we were asked to list who are some people that come to mind that share encouraging words with us. And Selah listed a few people, and Miss Kirk was on that list. You were listed in the Bible study, so you came to mind.
Kelsey Kirk: Thank you. That's going to make me cry even thinking of that. That's so, so sweet that she thought of me. I'm so glad that I have been able to have that connection with her. [00:54:53] She's truly a phenomenal person.
Laura Dugger: Well, as are you. You have been such a gift to our family in big and small ways. You're consistently kind and encouraging. Your personality just does bring out the light in the students' eyes. And you're so effervescent yourself. So thank you for being my guest.
Kelsey Kirk: Thank you so, so much. And thank you for doing this episode to kind of highlight the different types of schooling and to just talk about the awesome things that are happening in education. Because I truly do feel that so many people are investing so much in shaping our students and shaping our children.
So no matter what path people go down, whether that's public school, private school, homeschool, I really think it's incredible to talk about different strategies that you can use and really partner together. [00:55:54] Because it does, like I said earlier, take a village. And so when we're all working together and we're all encouraging each other, there's no need to have competition of what's better than this and what's the best choice. When we can all partner together and help each other, that's really what's going to be the best for our kids.
So I think it's awesome to look at all the different options and just to encourage all of us in all of the different educational formats.
Laura Dugger: I could not agree more. That is beautifully put. So thank you again.
Kelsey Kirk: Of course. Thank you.
Laura Dugger: One more thing before you go. Have you heard the term "gospel" before? It simply means good news. And I want to share the best news with you. But it starts with the bad news. Every single one of us were born sinners and God is perfect and holy, so He cannot be in the presence of sin. Therefore, we're separated from Him.
This means there's absolutely no chance we can make it to heaven on our own. [00:56:55] So for you and for me, it means we deserve death and we can never pay back the sacrifice we owe to be saved. We need a savior. But God loved us so much, He made a way for His only Son to willingly die in our place as the perfect substitute.
This gives us hope of life forever in right relationship with Him. That is good news. Jesus lived the perfect life we could never live and died in our place for our sin. This was God's plan to make a way to reconcile with us so that God can look at us and see Jesus.
We can be covered and justified through the work Jesus finished if we choose to receive what He has done for us. Romans 10:9 says that if you confess with your mouth Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved.
So would you pray with me now? Heavenly, Father, thank You for sending Jesus to take our place. [00:57:58] I pray someone today right now is touched and chooses to turn their life over to You. Will You clearly guide them and help them take their next step in faith to declare You as Lord of their life? We trust You to work and change their lives now for eternity. In Jesus name, we pray, amen.
If you prayed that prayer, you are declaring Him for me, so me for Him, you get the opportunity to live your life for Him.
At this podcast, we are called Savvy for a reason. We want to give you practical tools to implement the knowledge you have learned. So you're ready to get started?
First, tell someone. Say it out loud. Get a Bible. The first day I made this decision my parents took me to Barnes and Noble to get the Quest NIV Bible and I love it. Start by reading the book of John.
Get connected locally, which basically means just tell someone who is part of the church in your community that you made a decision to follow Christ. [00:58:58] I'm assuming they will be thrilled to talk with you about further steps such as going to church and getting connected to other believers to encourage you.
We want to celebrate with you too. So feel free to leave a comment for us if you made a decision for Christ. We also have show notes included where you can read Scripture that describes this process.
Finally, be encouraged. Luke 15:10 says, "In the same way, I tell you, there is rejoicing in the presence of the angels of God over one sinner who repents." The heavens are praising with you for your decision today.
If you've already received this good news, I pray that you have someone else to share it with today. You are loved and I look forward to meeting you here next time.
Welcome to The Savvy Sauce
Practical chats for intentional living
A faith-based podcast and resources to help you grow closer to Jesus and others. Expect encouragement, surprises, and hope here. Each episode offers lively interviews with fascinating guests such as therapists, authors, non-profit founders, and business leaders.
They share their best practices and savvy tips we can replicate to make our daily life and relationships more enjoyable!
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